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Messages - philipcosson

First response from a member of tha sailing committee...


"As I see it the N12 PY is based on the clubs' PY returns for the all N12 fleets across the country and is therefore made up of results for all boats, old and new. I suspect the 'true' new boat handicap is therefore sub-1093, and old boats higher than 1093, leading to an 'average' of 1093. For the N12 class to say that 1093 is good only for new boats could be construed as being  somewhat dodgy ;-)

I would therefore vote to keep it as a single number, in the same way other classes, development or not, have to contend with. We all know that it is possible to 'cheque-book sail' to some extent (otherwise why would we buy new sails/boats?) in order to remain competitive. If I bought an old IC, another development class for example, I wouldn't expect to be treated with a more favourable handicap than the new boats."

I'm just raising the PY numbers with my club sailing committee. Is it true to say that the numbers published in the handbook (p10) have all been official RYA PY numbers for the class?

sail numbers 0001-1599,     years 1936-1958,     PY1170
sail numbers 1600-2511,     years 1958-1970,     PY1145
sail numbers 2512-3140, years 1970-1980,     PY1130
sail numbers 3141-3271, years 1981-1987,     PY1115
sail numbers 3272-3410, years 1988-1994,     PY1104
sail numbers 3411+,       years 1995+,             PY1093

I think it makes a more compelling case if they were the actual RYA numbers at the time of manufacture.

I do see their difficulty however - when significant modification could have taken place in the intervening years. I personally would not look fo a different number for my boat if I had uprated with carbon spars and foils...  There is also a problem if you have volunteer race officers, having effectively several differnet "classess" of N12 in their computer.

Has anyone had these discussions, what was the outcome?





I purposely moved to this class because it was aftmain. To give more room in the boat and because  I learn't this way.

Just got this off another thread:

"... I understand that the Dutch Sailing Authority are now reluctant to support the Mirror as a Junior Class because they have medical evidence that the aft sheeting system ,because of the twisting posture, can damage backs and knees. I have heard that the RYA was also concerned because some similar evidence from the Topper Class, which of course now permits centremains."

What could this evidence be? Could the RYA be "concerned" for us? or is it just Kids classes?
Great news that the inland champs will be a my home club (scaling dam). Even better that they are on 30th Sept-1st October, plenty of time to practice.

Do you have to qualify to enter? how many races and where?


Philip & Joel

thanks for the replies

see you there



I'm new to the class (any class in fact!) and would like to come to the regatta in may.

I'm trying to arrange holidays.

When on Saturday must we be there, ready to sail? Do we have to have bouancy test and measure done beforehand? Will we be racing more than once each day? How many races will count, and how many can be discarded?

I have two non sailing family members who don't drive to think about. Is there any land based activities arranged? Is there any public transport from Pitsford to the town centre? Can non-racing non association members join in any activities on the day or evening?

When does the racing begin each day, finish each day and what happens in the evening? Is it OK to come, race and go back home without engaging in evening activity? Can we leave the boat rigged at the club these days?

Sooo many questions.


Mr Blue Sky (nee Seawitch)

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