Topics

All,
It is my dream to one day build my own boat.  However I am a little stuck in the past.  If it were going to be a N12, it would have to be a glued clinker design from the late 50's to late 1960's, much like the Starfish I currently own (Sparkle 2383) which I have re-decked this winter.
Can you still get hold of the plans for these boats?  Squids, Sparklets, Starfish, late Proctor designs, etc.
Someday I will win the lottery.
And this must be done before I am too old to sail it.
Cheers
Steve

I was reading my copy of Robin Steavenson's National 12 book, when I came across a couple of statements pertaining to the Noakes Starfish design.
1.  The designer (Mr Noakes) is recorded as recomending a 25/65 ratio for jib/main setup.  Is this still relevent after all these years?  What are peoples current thoughts especially with the advent of loose foot mains/spreaders/etc?  I am running a second hand mismatched set of sails and after a very recent thread I am going to have to have a look at the combination I have - just to see if; a.  It is likely to be legal.  b.  If it is a recomended configuration for the design.  The current main is the only loose foot main I am in possession of and the jib, is the best of a pile, but is certainly bigger that some of the older ones I have.  Looking down the line, having updated my mast, I hope to be looking at sourcing a new set - once I can come to terms with paying more than double the price I paid for the boat/trailer/etc for them. 
2.  Mr Steavenson describes a sliding jib fairlead arrangement on the trailing edge of the foredeck.  I saw something similar on Pendle Witch and have replicated it on Sparkle, Or at least I think I have.  On Sparkle, as you pull the jib in tighter, from the oposite side of the boat, which is where the crew is likely to be when close hauled, the fairlead and cleat will move inboard on the track.  When the tension is released the slider will return outboard - this is controlled by shock cord under the deck.  Mr Steavenson describes the action completely the opposite - i.e. when the tension is released, the cleat and fair lead returns inboard?  Seems a bit odd?
Cheers
Steve Hawkins

From designs like Squids, Starfish, Smugglers and Sparklets (last of the clinkers), through the 70 to 80's, to designs like Crusaders and Baggys etc.
The hulls are getting wider, but they are also getting less deep?
Is this why measurements pertaining to the mast and fittings are taken from the sheerline?  An imaginary line across the boat from gunnel to gunnel, marked on the mast?
This implies that in real terms, masts can vary in length quite considerably between designs.  depending on the distance between the hog and the sheerline.
Therfore an alloy mast from a later design might not be appropriate for an earlier design?
ho hum
Steve H

All,

I am looking for a newer set of sails for my Starfish, 'Sparkle'.  I am looking for a Dacron set, preferably with a loose foot.  I occasionally sail with the CVRDA who would rightfully penalise me if I turned up with a classic N12, with a mylar main, and do not mention the 'C' word;)

The mast I have is probably the original Proctor, with a single diamond, rather than spreaders.  This I also had hoped to replace with something slightly more modern, i.e. an alloy mast with spreaders.  However, these seem to be in short supply.

I have recently placed a wanted add for a second hand set of dacron sails but have had no response, and I have also kept an eye on ebay.  So if that option is not going to bear fruit, I can only look at the possibility of a new set.  However, having seen the prices on P&B, I am a bit taken aback  (approaching 3 x the price of the boat)

I was sent an email some time ago about sail maker who would do a resonable deal for sails for classic boats, typically,I cannot find the email though.  Does anyone have any ideas?

Cheers

Steve H

All,
I am looking to replace my old gold proctor mast (with a diamond) with a later more flexible alloy Proctor C mast with spreaders.  The boat is Sparkle - a Starfish from 1967. 
At my club there is a stack of masts from various broken up boats, some of which have spreaders, etc, still fitted.
So a 10 mins with a tape measure will sort this avenue out once and for all.
So what is the mast length for a hog stepped mast and how far up should the spreaders be set?
I am not in a rush, but if there is something suitable right under my nose then I might as well get on with it

When did national 12s start moving from diamonds to spreaders on alloy masts?  My Starfish has its original mast complete with diamond.  It used to have a wheel kicker arrangement as well, however that has long since been removed/lost.
Purely on performance, should I consider replacing the mast with one with spreaders?  Or could I fit speaders to my existing mast.  Or should I just forget about it and rejoice in the fact that I still have a more or less original set-up?
Cheers
Steve Hawkins

I own Planet (672) a 'modified' 500 series National 12.
It has the old galvanised steel centre plate.  I was thinking of trying a Firefly centre plate, but for the time being I am persevering with the steel one.
However the current arrangement for pulling it up and letting it down leaves much to be desired. 
Currently the centre plate has a pulley attached to it and there are two others, either side of the kingpost.  I also have a couple of bronze 'jammers' (bronze tube with a slot down one side) fixed to the front edge of the seats on either side, The single rope leads from one jammer to the closest king post pulley, then to the pulley on the plate, and then to the other pulley on the other side of the king post and finally to the opposite jammer forming an 'M'. 
This should allow you to pull the plate up from either side of the boat.......If it were not for the jammers - which refuse let go of the rope unless the weight of the plate is removed...Currently achieved by puttings ones foot on the plate to push it forwards, allowing you to release the rope from the jammer.
Its a bit of a 'palava'.   So what setups do other people have with thier vintage boats?  Or do people just leave the thing down as its pretty thin anyway?

I would like to thank a chap called Micheal Townsend who has recently let me have (at no cost) a set of cotton sails for my N12 Planet for those vintage CVRDA events. 
I would also like to continue in this vein, by offering up some of my spares.
I have a couple of old fixed spoon rudders and some old main sails.  Unfortunately I am a bit short of decent jibs, but one or two rust stained ones are available, if anyone is interested, let me know.
Thanks
Steve H

Had out first sail of Planet last night - between rain squals.  Unfortunatly the heavy rain stole most of the wind...Ho-hum!  However we are starting a list the list of mods.  Some of which are just make and mend.  The wooden mast was fine though.
but I have to say that the heavy galvanized steel plate was a bit of a pig to raise.  It certainly is heavy.  It dropped well enough!
I am thinking of swapping to an alluminium plate.  I understand that later classic boats went to an Ally plate.  Or is that Fireflies?
The slot in the case is quite thin, so I do not think I would get in a wooden one in, that would be thick enough.
Cheers
Steve

Having recently aquired Planet 672 with a deck stepped wooden mast and boom, I was wondering of it was possible to source a second hand aluminium mast (for general knocking about) so that I can keep the wooden set-up (and cotton main) for those 'vintage' occasions.
The wooden mast does sit in a square bronze 'socket' on the deck, which will complicate things.
Cheers
Steve H

Planet 672 - Holt 500 series (enhanced/other design?) built 1948.
I am in the process of buying this boat and bringing back to Wiltshire (South Cerney Sailing Club).  I pressed the 'buy it now' button on ebay.  Picking her up on Monday.
The boat is for my lad, who is getting too big for his Cadet (Oxo 2771).  However it will be run along side my 1959 Merlin Rocket and I am sure I will get to sail her as well.
I hope she will be active in the CVRDA circuit.
 
Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1376 is on ebay at the moment.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wooden-Sailing-Dingy-/130510307362?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Sailing_Boats_ET&hash=item1e63054022#ht_500wt_1156

I went to see it last night as there was some confusion as to what the boat was - original described as 15 ft, so could have been a Merlin of a similar vintage.....In theory.  This is what I think about her condition:

"I saw the Mk9 imposter tonight and she is indeed a nice old National 12 and she does have Dancing Girl written on the stern.  Or at least she would have been nice if not for her state.

She has no sails and no rudder, but there are 2 wooden booms and a Proctor mast with a wheely thing at the base for the kicker, just like my merlin 950 - only its complete. Standing rigging seems to be all there.

She needs a full redeck and gunnels.....No she needs to be put somewhere undercover for some months to dry out before you can ascertain the full extent of the water damage although I did not detect any soft spots low down in the hull. There is some rot at the bows just below the deck you can push you finger through - the top hull plank is rotten for the first foot of its length and the stem will have to be reglued as well.

On the plus side, you will probably get all the rest of the varnish off with a hair drier.....And since the deck will be comming off you will be easily able to do the front.

I personnally think she is just about redeemable, but will have to be a labour of love and you will not be sailing her this year. I also suspect it will cost you more than she'll ever be worth. But that is always par for the course - isn't it.

The boat is on a farm where it has been stored - It is being sold by the farm owners to try and recoup the owed 'ground rent' as they have not heard from the original owners for some time and the have certainly not paid thier storage - this accounts for the missing sails and rudder.

Steve Hawkins
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Steve Hawkins
1959 Merlin Rocket 950 (Proctor MkVIII) "Desperation"
1956 Cadet mk2 2771 "OXO"
1984 VW T25 "Misguided Purchase"