RYA Dinghy Show - Alexandra Palace - 3rd/4th March

[philipcosson]

[rick perkins]

[philipcosson]

Rick,

PC's dominate the market:

1) because of microsoft's near monopoly.
2) apple is one company against 1,000 - apple sell a lot more 'PC's' than Evesham Micro - for example
3) since I went upstairs and had a shower, i've had a worrying thought that the RS200 might be the apple users choice - because the sales messages for the mac are - you just get on and use it, you don't need to learn, no upgrade issues, it plugs in right out of the box
4) it is the apple that is uniform, not the PC - my little 'sideline' company writes software - we tried it on one imac - and it works, so we can say it works on all imacs! we can never say that about PC's because they are all different - This is why games consoles are so popular - games programmers can develop for a known configuration.

Phil

radiography simulation software
virtual radiography
www.shaderware.com

for the spiders (however that works!)

[rick perkins]

I don't think the PC/mac discussion can be sensibly done on a forum so I won't add any further commenr apart from the comment that the RS200 is not the mac users choice ...

[Mikey C]

I have four macs, and an International Moth.  

[Jimbo42]

[tedcordall]

[quote by=philipcosson link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1170716281,s=30 date=1172392199]Mike,

Going back to the BETTER that an RS200 bit - The tradegy is that hull develoment has not been that quick, and that devaluation of hulls should not really happened on a timeframe that would be different to a one design. I doubt most people would expect a 10 year old RS hull to win the nationals, but that could happen in the N12 fleet - because it could form the basis of a re-engineered boat - look at Phil David's boat 23 years old baggy trousers with full carbon mast, boom, rudder and spaceframe - and an excellent helm and crew - very competitive. SO this so called disadvantage is actually not true - and the N12 is likely to be competitive for longer, because you can keep updating!

Philip[/quote]

Yes but for the cost of re engineering the baggy the RS200 people could have traded up to a 2 year old RS200 which might do ok at the nationals!

[rick perkins]

Guys ... you have to stop obsessing about the RS200 ... the N12 is a great boat and offers really enjoyable sailing ... put your energies into telling people about the +ves and leave other classes to their own devises ...

[tedcordall]

[Mikey C]

[quote by=rick_perkins link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1170716281,s=37 date=1172427803]Guys ... you have to stop obsessing about the RS200 ... the N12 is a great boat and offers really enjoyable sailing ... put your energies into telling people about the +ves and leave other classes to their own devises ...[/quote]

Its easy pickings, its a similar hull shape, similar size and is the closest in construction i can think of, in that it is foam sandwich and not hardcore solid glass... Best boat as a guide for an off the shelf product as far as I can see.

Jim, if you leave all your talking to Burton week you wont have any time for sailing.

[icecreamman]

Interesting train of thought going on here boys. For my two penny worth, I have a wooden professional built vintage four plank boat, a carbon double bottomed one and for sentimental reasons I sorry my daughter has my old wooden Optimist that my father built for me many moons ago (that is another story). What I think we need to see is where the RS200s are when they are 71 like we are. They may not be around and with a bit of luck when the 12s are 140 they still will be. Whether they are or not I doubt if I will be around to see it, but I would like to think that if my grandchildren sail when they come along that they would enjoy the 12 as much as I, both my brothers and my parents have.
If we decide to go for the "Chinese" option we may end up stifling the new designers who turn up out of the blue with something radical. Remember Jo Richards all those years ago who turned up with Subversion I think it was at Fallmouth and won a race in a boat that was home built, had a daggerboard and loose footed main when nobody else was thinking down those lines. If we do go down the mass production line which I fear is what you want Phil this will kill anything like Jo came up with. Personally I think it is great that someone out there has the time, inclination and enthusiasm to home build and the nut on the end of the tiller is good enough to win races at the Burton. Let us not kill this enthusiasm. On the other hand if P&B want to go to China because they think it may lower their costs, let them, they are not the only company involved with building 12s, but are the only ones who are marketing them. Good luck to them, but once again, cast your minds back to before the Paper Dart and ask who was marketing 12s then. Nobody and it did not stifle progress..
Nuff said I will now get down off my ice cream box

 

[John Meadowcroft]

Nice words ice cream man.

Getting back to the pre hi-jack nature of this thread....  Dinghy Show is at Alexandra Palace this coming weekend the 3/4 March.

On the stand you will find.....

A National 12
Many Happy National 12 sailors
National 12 merchandise
A Cheesy National 12 DVD playing
National 12 balloons
and much, much more.

Come and meet old friends and make new aquaintances.  Visit the P&B stand opposite the N12 stand and combine your visit to Alexandra Palace with an order for your new (British made, I believe...) National 12...

Anyone able to volunteer some time to help man the stand on the sunday (over lunchtime) would be greatly appreciated.  Please get in touch - number is in the book, or post here and I will wade through the Mac/PC (I am not PC)/China/RS200 debate.  

I have no anecdotes about any of these to share with you, except if you want a class product do not be concerned about paying for it.  My next 12 will be buy british if only so I can be close to its birth which is the wonderful joy in getting a new N12 to your own specification.  Oh damn, I did have an anecdote.

cheers
John

[rick perkins]

[quote by=ice_cream_man link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1170716281,s=40 date=1172433345]Remember Jo Richards all those years ago who turned up with Subversion I think it was at Fallmouth and won a race in a boat that was home built, had a daggerboard and loose footed main when nobody else was thinking down those lines. [/quote]

That must have been a great era to sail 12's; an era when it was possible to make a cheap home build to your own design and turn up and test you ideas ...

If the 12 is to still be here in another 70 years depends on it's ability to continue to develop and improve.

Seems to me that there has been little significant development for the last 10 years and as such the current 12 is now locked in time just as much as any manufactures class.

As the dominant design is now 12 years old either it's near the perfect for the rule or no-one has any abitite for designing a new hull.

If the rule now offers little opportunity to develop as designers have exploited every nook & cranny the 12 will not move forward and will fizzle out... seems to me the rig is well overdue some development and the rule should open up ...

[Jimbo41]

[Mikey C]

Wood and epoxy isnt cheap. Find a pro builder who will build you a cheap wood boat.

Glass sandwich is cheap, easy and quick. All you need is half a brain, the ability to ask questions, and a mould and there are plenty of these about for rent/free use. You dont have to use carbon to get underweight and we have been over all that before.

We had a pretty recent run on home builds, most of them were pretty cheap and some of them very fast, seems the only problem is finding motivated people.

And Jim, if those people at the front of the fleet hadnt sold up and moved on to newer boats, we wouldnt have nearly 100 db boats. I made a point of selling my last 3 boats after 2 years of ownership, purely because I could, not because I needed to.