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RYA Dinghy Show - Alexandra Palace - 3rd/4th March

Started by John Meadowcroft, 05 Feb 2007, 10:58

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off shore (Guest)

it would be sensible to off shore production of the hull to china, as it is a labour intensive process this would keep costs right down. The raw material often comes from their anyway http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/nbyyltbx

the big question for most people will be the selling price not the colour. If they have off shored the production - is that going to translate into a lower retail price or more profit?

Antony

It is being built in Suffolk, onshore Suffolk rather than off the coast.  When you meet a rich custom builder of high-tech racing dinghies perhaps you could point them out to me.  I know some of the best in the country and none of them are exactly flash with their cash!!

Antony

rick perkins

[quote by=off shore (Guest) link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1170716281,s=15 date=1172125878]it would be sensible to off shore production of the hull to china, as it is a labour intensive process this would keep costs right down. The raw material often comes from their anyway http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/nbyyltbx

the big question for most people will be the selling price not the colour. If they have off shored the production - is that going to translate into a lower retail price or more profit?[/quote]

That only works if they have the skills & knowledge - this is a very low volume specialised business. Not popping out plastic rubbish ...

Why do most F1 cars get built in the UK? Because that is where the skills are ...

regards,

Rick

N12 3490
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James Taylor

On the shipping moulds out to the Far East just ask Laser as I have been realably informed that Laser are bring there moulds back in to the UK as there have been Quailty Issues and these are just GRP boats not Carbon Epoxy boats. They even asked all there old staff back for a meeting / party and asked them to come back.


James
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Jimbo41

Didn't realise Laser's production was centralised. I thought they worked out licensing agreements. That was the case a few years ago when they were producing windsurfer boards. I got a no-name board as a "second" from one of the manufacturers based in Wisbeech. Perhaps there was a quality issue.... :-/

Jim.
 

James Taylor

Hi Jim

Laser used to get boats like the Laser 3000, laser 500 Dart's, EPS, Were made by a parter / sister company called Preformance Sailboat in Falmouth,then they shifted production to Banbury and then out the the far east, there company in falmouth was better quailty than Banbury and production time less the experance in there work force was years old many did at least 10+ years at the company and when they closed some of there work force came up to Seaquest yachts were I was working at the time and they were good.

Cheers
James
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philipcosson

Rick posted - "Why do most F1 cars get built in the UK? Because that is where the skills are ..."

Rick, you are joking about the F1 comparison right? on what possible planet could you compare the technology level required to build an F1 car with that required to build a National 12????? One of my good school friends, a superbly accomplished electrical engineer, works for a small cambridge company and worked on the design and build for a data logger for a F1 car. The budget was huge and he worked with a team of people for over a year on the design and build. Just for the data logger!!! (Remember the thread about electronic equipment allowed on a N12?????)

I think this "quality" bunk is insulting to the chinese. The N12 ethos was that it could be built by the gifted amatuer. The chinese are quoted as being able to build stealth bombers out of kevlar epoxy composite! I quote from a defence concern document - "The PRC acquisition of composite technology is an interesting case study. It indicates a broad-based set of joint-venture initiatives directed toward providing for the PRC a state-of-the-art composite materials/aerospace structure capability."

How hard can a N12 be???? can winder knock up a kevlar stealth bomber?????

Here are 10 things the chinease do better than us (well canada...) http://aolnetscape.workopolis.com/servlet/Content/fasttrack/20041023/CHINATEN23?section=Technology

Philip
Philip<br />ex N3367, ex N3253

rick perkins

Well then just order your next boat from your chosen Chinese one-off boat builder then ...
regards,

Rick

N12 3490
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rick perkins

regards,

Rick

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John Chalker

A couple of comments to keep thiss one going....

1)Did you know that the "mystery"  boat builder in rural suffolk also builds composite racing cars.?
2) Difficult for P&B to get their moulds back from China if production by an unproven builder is not good enough.
3) Quality of fake Rolex watches would suggest copying and production of masts/booms/foils etc a good idea at low cost?

philipcosson

My point is that as an individual - I am not likely to contact the chinese and overcome the problems of communication - but as a company like P&B I would jump at the chance - once you have a partnership - you can invest in that and start building all sorts of things - spars, foils, and other hull designs.

If you did a run of 20 hulls - and sold them at a price the market set, not the builder then the class might attract a lot of new members.

One problem would be that this would undercut all the second hand values of newish boats. Perhaps this is one of the factors supporting a high price for new builds at the moment.

Another would be that all 20 would be identical - so it would be close to one design racing at the top of the fleet. The only innovation would be in the rig. This would probably be the reason not to go for it.

I only speculated that this might be the 'big secret' - i'm not advocating it, its just a 'thought experiment'

The fact that the 'big secret' was that its made in suffolk was a little underwhelming to be honest! John Ellis (of Int Canoe fame) makes IC's in carbon - he started making motocycle parts last year for a company. So this sort of crossover can go both ways - they obviously though a boat builder was better/cheaper than their motorsport supplier.

Philip
Philip<br />ex N3367, ex N3253


Mikey C

[quote by=philipcosson link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1170716281,s=26 date=1172311550]

If you did a run of 20 hulls - and sold them at a price the market set, not the builder then the class might attract a lot of new members.


Philip[/quote]

What is that price?

I'd like someone to show me a boat that actually proves the 12 to be expensive for what it is. vacuum bagged, epoxy, full carbon rig, this is high quality stuff in general we are talking. It SHOULD be more expensive than an RS 200 and I cant think of a single boat that compares otherwise....

From following the Bladerider moth project, they are building 50 boats in a chinese factory and  are still selling boats more expensive than the competitors. lord knows when their tooling costs will be covered alone...
Carbon Toys for fast girls and boys!

//www.aardvarkracing.co.uk

rick perkins

regards,

Rick

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