What is not in the 78kg?

rick perkins · 23 Mar 2007, 01:57

[quote by=John_Meadowcroft link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1169288680,s=14 date=1169555868]i came up with some more...

bailer/bucket
sponge
sandwich.

john

[/quote]

So we pretty much have it covered - so why not just set a sailing weight of 88kgs?

Much simpler and would allow people to have more robust/cheaper rudders and booms at the expense of lead.

I could not believe the price of my rudder when I looked in the P&B catalogue ....

Rick

Jimbo41 · 23 Mar 2007, 01:58

Wot about Cornish Pastie?

- nice pic of our Captain Pugwash scoffin' one in the Newsletter....

Oh and gofaster stickers..., emergency flares (usefull in my case), Bar(BQ), warps and fenders, spare rudder (useful for Grazz at last BW...

)

The list is endless.......

rick perkins · 23 Mar 2007, 03:34

[quote by=Jimbo41 link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1169288680,s=16 date=1169560707]Wot about Cornish Pastie?

- nice pic of our Captain Pugwash scoffin' one in the Newsletter....

Oh and gofaster stickers..., emergency flares (usefull in my case), Bar(BQ), warps and fenders, spare rudder (useful for Grazz at last BW...

)

The list is endless.......[/quote]

...and?

The question I raise is why not simplfy the rules to make boats cheaper & more robust without increasing the overall sailing weight ...

Rick

THG · 23 Mar 2007, 04:59

[quote by=rick_perkins link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1169288680,s=17 date=1169566469]

...and?

The question I raise is why not simplfy the rules to make boats cheaper & more robust without increasing the overall sailing weight ...

Rick

[/quote]

Is this likely to happen??? - most (if not all) of the 'top' boats will already have carbon rigs etc - so how will changing the rule make a cheaper (tin mast??) more preferable??? I agree its less confusing but it won't have much other affect (IMHO).

Kean

rick perkins · 23 Mar 2007, 05:14

It was just a suggestion - it's alright for you guys who have had 12's for years but complex rules are hard to digest for new commers who have sailed boats with no certificate for the last 12 years ....

One of the reasons the RS200 is so successful is simplicity ...

Rick

JohnMurrell · 23 Mar 2007, 07:31

Rick,

If its any consolation I have given up on modern boats, well I am still putting them together for people, but I do find that the older boats have much more character! Kean is enjoying one of my rejenuvation projects and last weekend my brain failed and I hit the wrong button on an eBay bid so I now have in the workshop a Feeling Foolish (Unregistered) a Bouncer and a 7 plank China Doll of '72 vintage! Sad thing is that I really do remember the Doll when it was new and sailed in its first Salcombe Week..................... and hopefully it will make it to its 36th Birthday there next year - champers, cake and all!

John
3003 and 2632
ex 1030, 2368, 2425,2672,2760, 2808, 3062, 3158,3257, 3339, 3396, 3435, 3444 - bet the 200's can't remember such sad details!

JohnMurrell · 23 Mar 2007, 07:31

Rick,

If its any consolation I have given up on modern boats, well I am still putting them together for people, but I do find that the older boats have much more character! Kean is enjoying one of my rejenuvation projects and last weekend my brain failed and I hit the wrong button on an eBay bid so I now have in the workshop a Feeling Foolish (Unregistered) a Bouncer and a 7 plank China Doll of '72 vintage! Sad thing is that I really do remember the Doll when it was new and sailed in its first Salcombe Week..................... and hopefully it will make it to its 36th Birthday there next year - champers, cake and all!

John
3003 and 2632
ex 1030, 2368, 2425,2672,2760, 2808, 3062, 3158,3257, 3339, 3396, 3435, 3444 - bet the 200's can't remember such sad details!

JohnMurrell · 23 Mar 2007, 07:32

Drat!
Now you understand how I hit he button on eBay!

rick perkins · 23 Mar 2007, 07:36

[quote by=John_Murrell link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1169288680,s=21 date=1169580689]Rick,

If its any consolation I have given up on modern boats, well I am still putting them together for people, but I do find that the older boats have much more character! Kean is enjoying one of my rejenuvation projects and last weekend my brain failed and I hit the wrong button on an eBay bid so I now have in the workshop a Feeling Foolish (Unregistered) a Bouncer and a 7 plank China Doll of '72 vintage! Sad thing is that I really do remember the Doll when it was new and sailed in its first Salcombe Week..................... and hopefully it will make it to its 36th Birthday there next year - champers, cake and all!

John
3003 and 2632
ex 1030, 2368, 2425,2672,2760, 2808, 3062, 3158,3257, 3339, 3396, 3435, 3444 - bet the 200's can't remember such sad details![/quote]

I am not saying the RS200 is better; we has one (or many) for years and now have a 12 so our view is clear; however the RS200 has been a success in terms of numbers sold and event attendance; perhaps there are a few lessons that can be learnt?

Rick

Nigel · 23 Mar 2007, 08:26

John

I wondered who brought 2632, I was tempted as this was the boat that Andy upgraded to when we 1st started sailing 12's

Let me know what you do wiith it, any pictures I could send to Andy who now live in Guadeloupe

Regards

Nigel

angus · 23 Mar 2007, 08:28

Rick the beauty of 12s is you can make them as simple or as complicated as you want true you probably go a bit faster if youv've got a complcated one. Unless your simple like me. I think actually the rules for the 12 are quite simple (I still cann't under stand them) Think what will happen if you go for an all up weight. each time you lose break or bend somthing your going to have to reweight. It is not like an rs when you can just go and by another identical one off the shelf.
Its all part of the fun of having a 12.
Now to see if I can post this only once.

Lukepiewalker · 23 Mar 2007, 08:47

Surely as weight in the ends is to be avoided, all that would happen would be people would keep the light rudder and add more lead (or something else heavy, low, and in the middle)...

JohnMurrell · 23 Mar 2007, 08:52

Rick,

I think the point here is that in todays market its all too easy to go out and buy a boat with all the numbers already dial in and, at the risk of upsetting those that sail them, not really understanding why a certain tweak makes a boat go better. Its very easy to go to Eastleigh and buy a boat off the shelf, set it up the way that the tuning guide says and off you go and if you did it properly get a result .

My belief is that without the Twelve boats like the 200 wouldn't have existed, in the same way as I believe the Merlin spawned the 400's. The essesence is that whilst a class like the Twelve dreams of the heady days of 100+ boats at a champs, the reality is that we appeal to those that like bimbling with our boats and given todays lifestyle fewer and fewer people are prepared to spend time in the garage on a cold and damp Jauary evening sorting out their boat for next Aprill or May. And ok I am in a serious minority here, however with two brand new titanium knees I will be playing on the water again too!

To put things into perspective, last Wednesday I spent the day in Falmouth setting up the Twelve display at NMMC with Andy Wyke and our boats stood out from every other one there, people were drooling over Chunky Monkey, and Andy commented that even when they had an I14 dispaly he didn't get that sort of awe over a boat! Even the museum volunteers who by their own admission couldn't dream of even getting their feet wet were in rapture looking at a modern Twelve.

In truth we are only at the 23rd day of the first month of 2007 and look at what the class has already achieved, if we ain't at the top of the Premier League who is?

rick perkins · 23 Mar 2007, 10:06

JohnMurrell · 23 Mar 2007, 10:23

Ok Rick, understand what you say, but have you ever looked at the Equipment Rules of Sailing? Almost every class bases its rules on that, but if people sail a homoginisied class the thought processes are taken away from you, Morrison, Howlett et all have done it for you. Sure looking at the wording of the rules is daunting but when ever was anything worthwhile easy? If you download a copy of the Measurers Guide from the homepage and use it as 'bog time reading' which is what a lot of the luninaries of the class in the past have done, its amazing how much lateral thought happens. Remember that Punkarella and Wizardry were concieved after a hard session in the local and a few beer mats. Next day and a couple of sheets of marine ply and Punka entered this world and the rest as they say is history!

I still maintain that its not the wording of the rules thats the problem, its modern lifestyles that preclude people thinking that they have the time to get their heads around them.