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Messages - andymck

When transitioning back to a rear mainsheet boat. The one piece of the technique I always ground tacks on is to swap first. Then as you cross the boat. Put each hand out to the side. This allows you to keep tiller and sheet a long way apart. And push off with your rear sheet hand to get across the boat.
As you then sit on the new side. The hands are apart and come back into the correct position as you sit down.

Facing forward was always the harder one.

Just another thought. On fireflies Many use an adjustable main halyard.
A simple 2 to 1 set up to a floating cam cleet.
Allows you to re hoist once you have mast bend, and then release a bit when you want a straight mast, and more twist in a powered up sail. It works because of the fixed clew. But may be useful to keep the sail at the top on a carbon rig.
I do wonder looking back if the tendency my rigs had to invert on the run was because I used a lot of main halyard tension.
This is the standard modern set up.
There will be wear at the head board which means you buy it slightly long and then adjust. It usually lasts a year between adjusting.
At the bottom. The grip cleat is the best solutions. I had two cleats on my last mast. You will notice on a carbon one as the mast bends the sail will drop a couple of inches. This is due to the mast effectively shortening. You can pull up again. Creating a loop and stepping into it works well, but causes mast compression.
The other issue is slippage with new ropes. They are coated and very smooth and will slip when new. Some classes recommend a single pass with 400 grade wet or dry to make sure it grips. No more than a single pass though.
The alternative is a haliard lock at the top. But that introduces a whole new level of potential pain.
General National 12 chat / Re: Rutland
03 Jul 2017, 02:11
At this time of year the club usually does Friday steak night. Saturday food all day. Sunday food all day.
Whoever is liaising with the club needs to check, especially if you want the bar available on Saturday evening.
The wheatsheef is open again after a fire last year.
General National 12 chat / Re: Rutland
03 Jul 2017, 02:08
To clarify about camping.
It is on the campsite opposite.
Usually best to book via the club or link above.
The charge for camping reflects the lack of facilities it's cheap. We use it every year for our family week and it's fine.
The club will provide a code to get into the changing rooms after hours.
The alternative are the bunk rooms.
Shame we don't have a 12 anymore. The weekend looks fun.

General National 12 chat / Re: Hi :)
29 May 2015, 12:43
You will find the DCB much more stable and forgiving than a foolish. They are rocket quick. We are already regretting selling ours, but kids are coming first and are not big enough. Will be back though at Mrs Mckees request  
ex 3529
There are at least two different set ups. The original settings used by Jo was originally copied. But Jo after the first mast snapped and some of the p and b boats found they had a tendency to invert the rig downwind, so some of the boats moved the shroud position back a little. The way this was done is probably quite difficult to measure the exact point of pull. Compare 3530 and 3529 vs toms boat, unless Anthony had 3529 modified. One of the reasons it may be happening is that the mast step is on a very slight incline. I found that it was not always a problem, but putting a penny under the back of the mast foot cured it, but caused more pre bend for the same rig tension, it amazingly makes a huge difference to mast set up. On my brothers 18 footer you could not get any rig tension without the penny, and the mast sat inverted. The boat I had we never had an issue.
Quote from: 29Smilie, this is exactly what happened with the daggerboard and the same chap got that working. It was okay then to ban something which had been around for a number of what has changed now to make this option such a no no?

The big difference was the ability to grandfather the boats with daggerboards. It also coincided with a big step in design change at the time.The guys who waited on building had baggies not bouncers. This meant the people who had already invested were not left in a significantly disadvantaged position. As already mentioned, the DCB does not work without the extra stern lift, hence why in lighter winds the other boats do well. It is also not ultimately fastest boat downwind in a blow. The design and wing just allow you to push harder for longer. 
A group of us had this very discussion at the Thorpe Bay champs. I actually used the same arguments you have used here. 
Bottom line is as there was minimal support for a ban. The wings were then sensibly limited at Hayling Island. We could potentially have picked a limit of zero.  By that time most of us realised that they are a good thing to have. They are not an impediment to sailing inland. The only place I would be reluctant to sail would be north west Norfolk, but many have and do. Most of us who do have them sail inland, rivers gravel  Pits etc. I would not want to go back. A well designed winged boat is easier to sail, carries more weight, and is no more hassle than my previous national 12's. What is more it can be a relatively cheap conversion if done at home, and has been shown to work on older designs as well. 
Do the question is, why should we change the rules. Or should we actually show people what they are missing. Personally I sailed the DCB on a river, and in light winds before making up my mind about the subject. I am not using my boat much at the moment, so you are welcome to try it for yourself. I am sure you would actually find its fine .
Andy Mck
Actually, though I do admit to a typo, we are in agreement. The time of stability I was refering to was prior to the DCB. We had almoost 80 boats at the Nationals the when the first DCB came.
What we need now is a period of stability, and I agree we need more boats. Boats are expensive. We are also coming out of a recesion. The real question is how do we promote class building. Meds and co almost got there with the Paradigm, with quite a few boats being built. The DCB kind of spoilt it. 
Can we build it cheaper? The cost difference between carbon and non carbon when i ordered mine was i think only 400 quid, so that isnt really the issue.
The ICONists seem to be building some momentum with the try an ICON day, do we need to do the same?
Most of the designers active in the class are pretty open with their designs, and will probably give advice for home building. The pics above are an obvious example. 
I must admit I was against T foil rudders when they became vogue, and wanted to see greater sail area, and partially battened mains.
The T foils I think have allowed greater weight to be carried, most of us are slower then the front guys mainly due to lack of practice and fitness. They also make the boats much easier to sail. I am much happier in a blow now than I was in my Foolish, or Baggy. Does this meen we can have more saill area? I doubt it, as it would certainly stop me taking more junior or novice crews out. There may be a good argument to go partialy battened and square topped, but its a hard one.
As for T foils inland, I sail inland, and first tried one on the river thames, they were fine, and quick. Once you get used to transporting them, they are not much hassle at all. 
We actually, like before the introduction of the DCB's and the Merlins are now benefit from a period of stability. There has to be enough competative boats to make people feel good, even though there are only really ever 5-10 competative crews.
I would like ot see the end of some more odd rules, like the lead strapped to masts. The boom and jib stick and redder should be weighed in the boat as well. 
And Nick Copsey in the top ten. Well done guys.
General National 12 chat / Bloody Mary
11 Mar 2014, 06:45
Congratulations to Graham, Zoe, John and Charlotte who scored a 1,2 in The Bloody Mary. 
A great result. 
Does anyone know the website of the guy who took the BUrton Cup photos?
Miffy had Transom flaps when I got her, but i noticed that she was one of the few Feeling Foolishes that did.

I must admit they were ok, but I am on the heavier side of N12 helms.

You may get away without them


Andy Mckee
I used to own that boat, and never really had much of a problem. It did have a tendency to invert sometimes but. No more than my current boat. It may be worth checking the mast is straight when it is off the boat. Sometimes the track can stretch and leave the mast permanently inverting. If that is all ok, then if the spreaders are correct, the settings used to be in the p and b website, try a bit more shroud tension, or failing that, a penny under the back of the mast foot, will induce more pre bend, you need one on each side on the twelve. Sounds odd, but some 18 footer rigs won't tension up until you do that. 
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