max speed in a 12

[simon ballantine]

I've just stumbled across the speed freaks league on the yachts and yachting website.  Lots of impressive speeds posted by various boats, but no N12's.
I'm going to try taking my gps out next time its windy.  What max speed should I be aspiring to?
How about our own league on the website?

[Fran G (Guest)]

I did 14.9 knots in Zippy with a 13 stone crew in about a force 5 on flat water at Chew Valley and have a photo.  Tried to send it to Y&Y but couldn't get past their registration process.  Too difficult.

It is quite fun.  But I couldn't see the GPS where it was or clearly I would have stayed out until I had hit 15.

Photo is at http://www.policesailing.org.uk/main.htm under Avon and Somerset link.

Fran
3431 Zippy

[THG]

Is this a 'cautionary' tale - I thought you could get 'nicked' for having a GPS on a 12 as they're banned aren't they???

Glad to see you won though.

Kean

[Jimbo41]

It's not quite as bad as having a radar detector...

Pretty cool sailing though. Without wishing to appear too personal, what was the all up crew weight? I'd like to know, 'cos it gives heart to all those Tubbers like me out there, who are told repeatedly by those in high authority that anything over 21st is just not competitive these days.......

Jim N3130 (and soon 3470 - just can't wait !!!)

[Fran G (Guest)]

All up weight would have been about 23 stone.  As you will see from the site it was a police event so I sail with a police officer.  Not the optimum all up weight but he is very good.

In relation to the comment about legality, the report mentions that the third race was not sailed, this was when I had the GPS.  The guy that leant it to me, may have had it while racing - who knows.

Fran G
3431

[philipcosson]

why on earth have a ban on a gps?! I read the comment earlier but decided not to 'weigh in', but I can't resist now.

This thread proves that there is an interesting reason to have one on your boat. I guess some will have the ability to save coordinates and speed - so you would be able to review the race afterwards at the bar. there will certainly be future developments in the technology. I could envisage all boats having them and the data is uploaded to a central race computer - this would help out enormously in the race office. It would also be good evidence for any disputes about the rules. It could update a large screen in the clubhouse to help make the racing even more of a spectator sport.

All these possibilities are exciting. I thought this was a development class, whay can't we be at the forefont of developments like this? If a lot of other classes are reactionary and say NO, surely we would be in a good position to discuss this with some forward thinking company who might want to develop some of the above technology and try it out with a cooperative class?

The only thing stopping me investing in the newest boat with the latest gismo's is other demands with a higher priority on my money. I don't think a development class should have that many rules to stop those who choose to spend their money on the latest thing from doing so - we will all benefit in the long run, as the best ideas filter down.

Philip
N3253

[Mikey C]

GPS' weren't specifically banned. Portable devices weren't really invented when the rule was written. The class needs to decide to allow them...

[rick perkins]

Could a GPS be used to accuratly position yourself on a start line?

If so I don't think we want them ...

If they are just for speed measurement and position tracking I can't see a problem ...

Rick

[johnk]

There are two issues here. How accurate is a GPS of the hand held type, and how often does it give a fix?

For speed measurements you take the distance between two positions and divide by the time interval. For World Sailing Speed Records, the distance has to be at least 500 metres. This is about a minute for a flat out N12. With a GPS, the shorter the time interval, the larger the uncertainty in the speed calculation.

For a given N12 the limiting speed is likely to be due to
a) gear breakage
b) boat capsizing to leeward
c) boat nose diving

a) and b) can be solved by strong enough gear and bearing away as wind speed increases. Thus the limit is likely to be nose diving. Wide beam at the stern and "transom hanging" will help. Other features like a larger jib to generate some lift up front and hull design I will leave to the experts!

[philipcosson]

I can't find the thread now - but I'm sure the answer was given recently that any electronic gizmo that does more than point to magnetic north or tell the time was banned (anyone with a pacemaker better watch out!)

Philip
N3253

[Lukepiewalker]

I think it goes back to the original tacktic race compass with the bars which showed you the wind shifts. I suppose the fear is ultimately having a device that starts making tactical decisions for you. Simplistically I suppose you could have one that would beeped when a certain angle of wind shift had been detected. But equally I suppose you could have a GPS one sophisticated enough to have local tide current and weather data and determine the tactics on a large scale.
Not necessarily something someone would go to the trouble of in a National 12, but in the heady Olympic classes world, someone probably would....
I suppose the main danger is you could end up with a horrendously complex rule to allow some devices but not others.

[Kevin]

Both the Silver National and Burton Cup have been won by a boat being crewed by someone with a pacemaker, so there is obviously a precedent there. Alternatively, there could be a retrospective disqualification resulting in Tom and Liz getting another win to their names!

Kevin

[Lukepiewalker]

But is a pacemaker not a timer?

[janeysailor12]

This is utter c**p!!! how on EARTH can a pacemaker possibly have ANY effect on boat speed, positioning etc??  apart fom doing the job it's designed to do ie re-stat someone's heart if it stops.

Janey

[Jimbo41]

Anyone know how the Original Tacktic was able to measure the wind shifts?

I think that is what was meant by "Pacemaker" Janey..A compass showing the wind shifts.. (My assumption may also be a load of Cr*p, but it's a lot better than sailing through it it....).

The question of the use of the GPS came up at the Burton Week AGM  this year in one of the discussions. Can't remember the rule excluding their use though, but I do remember the wording of all electronic devices which do more than indicate the time and in which direction relative to Mag. North a boat was heading.

Cheers!

Jim N3130 and N3470 (Wood - keeping apace)