Shortening 3.5mm shrouds on a Needlespar - ideas?

jonathan_twite · 11 Jul 2012, 01:47

The shrouds on my boat have apparently stretched over the years and now I have no rig tension at all. They appear to be 3.5mm wire (the measurement with a caliper is 3.48mm or .144in). I have been trying to shorten them and although I have been able to get 3.5mm ferrules, I cannot find anyone who has a crimping tool that will do wire that big. Everyone at our club seems to have the type which is two metal sections that are forced together by tightening bolts, and have circular holes in them for the ferrules & wire; these seem to only go up to 3mm.

The shrouds appear to have been designed never to come off - the top ends have a hard-eye inside the mast, around a bolt through the mast, but the hard eyes must have been put on after the wire was threaded through the mast probably before the top section of the mast was put on. This means that it is impossible to get the shrouds off to take them anywhere, and replacing them will be very hard.
So I'm kind of stuck. Do I hunt around for a 3.5mm crimping tool? Is it possible to use anything else? or should I attempt to remove the old shrouds, get some 3mm wire and try to crimp them into the mast myself (will probably require removing the jib-halyard block and threading the shouds out of there before trying to hook the bolt through them...)

Before you start, however much I might like it, a new fancy mast is not an option...

hmmm (Guest) · 11 Jul 2012, 02:51

Are you sure that the shrouds are getting longer and nothing
else is moving? Common candidate is the
bottom of the mast failing and slipping down over the heel plug. The foot in the boat could also be on the move.

Have you tried taking up the slack somewhere else?

If you try to shorten the shrouds Iâ€™d avoid the crimping
tools with the nuts, especially on anything important. You need to borrow one with long handles, youâ€™ll
also be shortening the shrouds by a lot by the time youâ€™re done.

jonathan_twite · 11 Jul 2012, 03:04

The boat is a Paper Dart and so fairly solidly built, the mast step is
on the floor so I doubt it has sank much. With the shrouds on the
lowest settings and the mast inverted and with negative rake (i.e. leaning forwards) by the forestay/jib, we still get a
reading of 0 on a super spars tension gauge.
We planned to chop a lot off the shrouds and then use rope to attach the shroud to the boat so we can find the required extra length, then replace the rope with a wire extension.

Chalky (Guest) · 11 Jul 2012, 09:11

Hard to believe 3.5mm wire has stretched. Is it a replacement stiick and shrouds fom another boat?
Can you take the mast to a local chandlery and get the shrouds shortened there?

icecreamman · 12 Jul 2012, 03:41

Way back when Needlespar masts were vogue it was possible to purchase them as a kit. The Old Man of the Sea had one such mast and was not going to be held to ransom in the same way that you could be at the minute. Instead of placing the aluminium "bolt" or more correctly rivet into the mast itself he replaced this with a more standard bolt with nuts on either end. Onto this we placed a steel strip which was easy to remove and thus replace shrouds in case they broke. Whatever route you take to sort out your shrouds Jonathan I would suggest something like this onto which you attach the shrouds. It will make your life so much easier in the long run. I am sure that your local chandlery will be able to help you out with this.

jonathan_twite · 12 Jul 2012, 10:50

Taking a closer look, it appears that the shroud fittings on the hull have been moved up / replaced higher up. I cannot move them down as they have a tensioning lever that wouldn't go right down.

ntoa · 13 Jul 2012, 12:54

Jonathan
It is very rare for the shrouds on a Needlespar to be 3.4mm as this would be incredibly difficult to create a small enough loop to go into the mast and round the bolt. Nearly all shroud wire is 3 mm and is at the upper limit for the 'bolt together' type of splicing kit.
I often used to shorten Needlespar type shrouds while they were on the mast using a talurit splicing machine. Remember that when you do shorten the minimum amount you can shorten them by is around 4 inches (2 inches for the existing eye and a further 2 inches to make a new eye) and this may be too much to correct your problem. You can shorten them by a smaller amount if you can get someone to fit roll swaged terminals on the ends (thereby removing approximately 1 inch), but the mast would need to be taken to someone who can do this.
If you want to totally re-rig the shrouds you can fit Holt shroud tangs (available from chandlers) these would be riveted to the mast below the existing bolt and new shrouds can then be attached to them with rigging links. This is how the shrouds were attached to Solo's for many years. The old shrouds would then be cut off flush with the exit holes in the mast.
It would be good, before any of this work, to ascertain what length the shrouds need to be to set up the correct rake etc. The mast rake should be around 250-300 mm measured from a plumb line from the top of the mast to the goose neck. This should be with the jib luff taught with 250 pounds of rig tension. Your jib attachment system/lever and your shroud adjustment/lever should then allow you to adjust the mast rake in either direction to fine tune the set up.
If you want to give me a ring for any other help, my number is in the N12 book.
Kevan Bloor

Shortening 3.5mm shrouds on a Needlespar - ideas?

hmmm (Guest)

Chalky (Guest)

ntoa