Heritage boats

[paul turner]

Which are N12 heritage boats?
Do we know where they are?
Do we know who owns them?
What condition are they in?
What should we, as a class, be doing to track them?

As a class we have heritage, envied by many other newer and/or one design classes - so perhaps we should be indentifying and tracking down these yots so that they are not lost to the class? And helping to preserve them? Let me start off the debate - Heritage boats ie those we should make every effort as a class or as individuals to preserve:

1. The first of each significant design, or if no longer available, the best example.

2. Boats famous for their helms, the trophies won etc - "Mr Jones" "Whisper"and "China Doll" would count on both counts?

3. Unusual or experimental boats such as "Four Square" - perhaps "Shotgun" and "Perfect Kiss" might qualify here?

There has been some discussion as to how the website database might be expanded (with minimum effort) to log these boats - but we should have definition (and a hit list) before we start! Ken Goddard has already done lots of work on tracking down vintage boats, Ed, Chadders and Gattiman know where some are, I have a few design firsts at home, and we know where N1 to N3 are, but what about the Four Plankers and more modern boats? I think we know where "Cheshire Cat" "Crusader" and the first Baggy are?

Over to you.....! Px :K)

[ken goddard]

I would like to join the debate and comment on Paul Turner's choice or type of Heritage National Twelve. In his category, 'first of influential designs' the candidates should include the Proctor Mark 8, which was a bit of a breakthrough in its time. I haven't heard what happened to N.1599 "Octopus" but two good early boats were seen in recent times. N.1626 "Intuition" (Points Winner in 1962) was seen a few years ago and went to Scotland, I think. Perhaps Ed Willett knows of its whereabouts. The other is "Cinzano", N.1777, which was owned and restored by Mike Liggett and is now I understand with John Meadowcroft.
I also question whether the so-called experimental designs are worthy to be called Heritage Boats. I'm not sure that "Four Square" ,Tommy Mann's "Droop", N.1514, ever got a Certificate and has not been seen during my time in the class. As for "Shotgun", this is an interesting boat but does not, in my humble opinion classify as a 'design'. Barry Jones' Micro-clipper design, "Perfect Kiss", is not experimental but of fairly conventional design at the time and is one of many amateur designs which were good on their day but never achieved a production run. In this category you could also include "Mild Sensation" (N.2629), "Scooter" (N.3018), or "Rough Diamond" (N.3102). 
Why isn't Witchcraft (N.1153) on the list?
Ken Goddard
 

[johnk]

Droop was sailed at Frensham Pond in the early 60s. I am sure that it had a valid certificate then. In any case it could not have sailed at Burton Week in 1957 without a certificate.

[Dave Croft]

Intersting topic.
Here are a few more for you - Waterloo Sunset - designed by Mervyn Cooke Int Moth champion and designer of the Magnum series of moths which dominated that class in the 70's. I think there were two built - Waterloo Sunset and Pinball Wizard (can't remember the numbers).
What happened to th "The Wedge" seen in early 70's once or twice - it has a reverse rocker!!!

[David Wilkins (Guest)]

The Wedge ended up on a bonfire in Purley in the late 70s/early 80s that it had been lingering alongside for a few years.

[icecreamman]

Gosh I remember seeing The Wedge at Whitstable many moons ago and pondering over the transom with its wardrobe door type fitting discolourations!!
Perhaps we also ought to consider either the original Paper Dart or Assassin as the sailing plug for the design from the point of view of looking at one of the first production boats certainly within the 12s along with March Hare without which there would be no Larks.

[STU W]

How abour the original Proctor Mk 8, had a huge impact on future trends
March Hare
Gryphon brave experiment to take the rules to the limit, in this context howabout 3321 soapdish, leading to D/B boats
Bouncer encouraged daggerboards, close sheeting and loose footed sails
Punkarella first round bilge 12 even though technically it wasn,t
c squared a brave attempt to break the uffa fox domination
mustang, first grp 12
Ogre so succesful beyond its contemporaries
Really interesting thread for a history geek like me.
Dead cat Bounce

[MikeDay]

Ah The Wedge, Whitstable 1971 ... the only Twelve I think that was incapable of turning a corner. The reverse rocker was so extreme that it planed with the lower part of its stem in the water then a couple of feet of the keel behind out of the water.
 
Impact - the first four-plank boat - is also missing from the list above - but Ogre? 'so successful beyond its contemporaries'? Not when I was watching ...!
 
Finally - Olympic update - we said hello/goodbye to the Olympic Torch at Hampton Court Palace this morning and waved it on to Gloriana (now there's a boat!).  Next up - Bradley Wiggins on Wednesday.
 
Mike D
N3533

[Interested Party]

Are any of Robin Steavenson's boats still in existance? 
Imortalised in print....At least I have a copy of "National 12 Book" and 'When Dinghies Delight"
I would recomend my own Starfish, but that is purely on sentimental grounds.  She does look nice though : )

[STU W]

Mike only thinking how well it went in the hands of Caroline Martin and Will Henderson well after its contemporaries were no where in sight in the results of Burton week:)

[Chadders]

RE Robin's boats-  
N153 and N1153 still belong to Howard Steavenson I believe and N2153 is currently being restored by Angus Beyts who is hoping to have her ready to bring to Leigh n Lowton in a few weeks time.  Team Miatt may also have other information on some of Robin's other boats.

[icecreamman]

Brother Peter still has N2753 (Candlelight) which was the second Cheshire Cat to be built. I owned Witchwhisper N2553 for a period after Robin's death, but she is no longer with me. Howard Steavenson is probably the best port of call for information on the rest of Robin's boats.

[paul turner]

Greetings and thank you to all who have contributed so far.

We had some interesting discussions on the North West Norfolk Week, with John Sears, Gerry Ledger and Dave Peacock adding their "two penny-worth". I am now in the process of typing up a first draft which I will publish after I have checked out some dates/facts.

DP brought up a very intresting point - should we also include boats that introduced new foiling, rig or sail concepts to the class even though the boat itself might not be classified as heritage? For example, the first boat to have a balanced rudder, loose footed main, or dangley pole?

Comments please. Px
Thinks - what the hell have I started here?

[Kevin]

The first carbon fibre hull is in my garage.
Kevin

[Pretty Vacant]

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