National 12 - find out more...

What events is 3344 eligible for?

Started by andy 3344, 14 Feb 2017, 08:19

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andy 3344

Hi - quick query since the 2017 fixture list is out. Our boat is a 1991 built Final Chapter converted to a double bottom but with a normal non-T-foil rudder.  What can we enter?  If it was still single skin we'd be an Admiral's Cup boat, but as it is are we just old?

Realistically we probably only want to do 12 Fest as it's early days for us and heaven knows we could do with the training.




you can enter all events
The gull series would be a good place to start
Alan ,

Dave Croft

Hi Alan,

Bouncer (2993) was converted to double-floor some years ago, at the champs last year she was in the double-floor / no T foil group.

It will depend on what categories there are at the events you attend but it looks like you are not considered an "Admirals Cup" boat. I wouldn't worry if I were you, just go race the boat and enjoy yourself!

Regards, Dave


Wow, all these categories are quite confusing for a newb, especially where they seem to overlap!  So 3344 isn't an Admiral's Cup boat, but mine (3405, single bottom Final Chapter) is, but they've both got enough chines, so are they 4-plankers?  Or is that just wooden boats? 
Dave Cooper 

andy 3344

Thanks all.  Seems like we're not eligible for Admiral's Cup which is what I was trying to determine.  No matter, happy to be in whatever fleet  :)

Like Dave I also wonder if a Chapter can sail at four planker meetings; I doubt it as the boat database uses four planker as a construction category and this is not applied to Chapters.



Hello Andy

Welcome to the fleet.

I have a feeling wooden chapters and plastic ones qualify for the 4P series but I will have to check the sailing instructions if I manage to track them down. PT can you remember?

Either way you are more the welcome to come along the Milton Keynes 12 open. It will be day a easy going 12 racing for the princely sum of £5.

I'm just wondering where are you based? 
The futures bright the future is rivers and lakes

John m

Hi Andy

Congrats on the purchase of 3344, a fantastic boat.

page 8 of the Class Association annual booklet tells all in this regard.  It is complex, that is what happens if you have development but wish to maintain some competition.  I think that it is better to potentially be complicated than to ignore.

If not a member of the Class Association, please do join - it pays for this forum, organises the fixtures you might want to attend and supports the value of your boat.  And it also subsidises events such as 12 Fest.

So, back to the original Q

All 12s are eligible to win the main prizes in the Class and all 12s can enter all events except for Vintage events

The key determinants are:

Winged foil - my estimate is 50 boats fit in this group
Double floored with no winged foil - my estimate is 100 boats
Single floored - complies to the pre 1996 buoyancy rules - with no winged foil - about 900 boats built - this includes "4 plank boats"
Vintage - built of clinker construction to designs prior to 1975 - with no winged foil - about 2,500 boats built

The idea is that clinker hulls are slowest.  Smooth skin hulls fall into single floor until the 1996 buoyancy changes.  Double floors reduce the water carried and maker the boat stiffer, making the boats quicker.  Winged foils are clearly a significant retro fit opportunity and complicate each group (as was the double floor to a lesser extent). 

You with 3344 are therefore double floored with no winged foil.

The real answer is to go for a wing on 3344 - notably 3443 another Final Chapter has done this.  race results from Burton Week last year were 7,6,4, before a retirement and then going home early

Have fun, hope to see you at 12 fest

John Meadowcroft

andy 3344

Thanks John and thanks Smilie for the MK open invite.  MK might be possible.  We're at Chew Valley Lake just south of Bristol.

Membership will happen when we visit the Dinghy Show stand on 4th March.

I have thought about retrofitting a T-foil to Ella but there's no way the current transom arrangement would be strong enough so some serious engineering, expense and added weight would be needed.  I would like to get rid of the original fat buoyant rudder though.  She's a good boat but old even by Final Chapter standards, 26 or 27 years old now.  I need to think whether the conversion would make sense. 



You don't like the fat rudder??  I'm certainly not convinced that it makes the boat any quicker, but it seems amazingly stall-proof!   As long as there's still a bit of blade in the water steering stays really positive,  makes the boat feel pretty safe in breezy weather.   I might revise my opinion after my first nosedive, though!   ;)

andy 3344

It generates a fair bit of drag with a big rooster tail in the wake, enough drag to defeat the auto-release clamcleat on the rudder hold down line when really planing, with interesting results.  I think going back to a more usual dinghy thickness to chord ratio would definitely help, although I appreciate the thinking behind the original idea of a fat rudder.  Stall angle is governed a lot by section shape and nose radius as well as thickness to chord ratio so I reckon I could get user-friendly performance off a thinner foil.

Learning to stay upright is probably going to have a bigger impact on our performance  :)


tom lee

the auto-release cleats are adjustable. if its releasing when it shouldn't you need to increase the release force.there is a washer under the cleat which you twist to adjust the force
Tom<br />N3545

Nigel W

The fat rudder is there to provide extra buoyancy at the transom, so a boon to heavier weight crews. The fat rudder does not cause the big rooster tail in the wake, this is due to the shape of the aft end. The centreline has a lot of curvature over the last two feet, whereas the 1st chine rises gently towards the stern, hence the water flows towards the centreline from both sides to give your rooster tail. Its this shaping that gives the Chapter its good windward performance. 

Changing the fat rudder to a thinner one has no effect on the wake. I have a thin foil on 3445 at the moment having switched to this after putting a hole in the fat rudder. The rudders do feel different, I was constantly turning too quickly with the fat rudder, so the thin one has slowed down my tacks. The main thing with these rudders is to make them neutral otherwise they really load up in a blow downwind. At least you don't instantly capsize in a Chapter when the auto-release gives up! You need to turn the plastic cam to increase the release tension.

I wouldn't put a foil on the boat until you have learnt to sail it well and have it set up correctly. Then when you put on a foil, you will know that it is only the foil that is in the wrong position when you are going slow!

Burghfield open is coming up Mar 18th, a great day to sort out boat handling and starting with around 9 races in the day.


andy 3344

Thanks ... and are you the Nigel W that built and owned Ella?  I understand the point about having more buoyancy aft.  How about when you're trying to keep the bow out in a blow downwind?  Doesn't more buoyancy aft hinder you then?  I agree about the oversteering temptation.  I was tacking through about 120 degrees when I stuck the tiller over like I do in my Europe!

I'll have a look at adjusting the auto release.  It is too sensitive.

Burghfield sounds great but might be a bit much for my 8 year old son.  Hoping for warm weather and fair winds for 12 Fest.


David Copse

Hi Andy,

My 7-year-old son will be there. We bought Ebba (our first 12) last summer and Rowan started sailing in the Autumn. We joined Burghfield to sail through the winter and he's loving it. Just make sure he's wrapped up warm (woolly gloves and marigolds for the hands are essential). We're not expecting to do all the races, but if it's less than 12kts (our self-imposed limit), we'll certainly be on the water for some of them. It would be great to have another newbe to race against.

We are also intending to go to 12 Fest and other inland meetings as conditions permit.

3457 Ebba

Nigel W

I'm not that Nigel.

We have found that a Chapter doesn't nose dive like a Foolish, Numinous or Wild Front Ear.  It is far more stable downwind, so we have had very few problems with nose diving. With our weight in the boat (16st) we found the Numinous uncontrollable in a blow on a broad reach, okay on a run, but you just needed to get there first, the bear away was really touch and go! With more weight in the boat it was much easier, this sinks the transom and makes the boat far more stable.

In the Chapter, we have found it much easier.  The first time we sailed the Chapter in a blow, the bow popped up, a totally unexpected experience in a 12. I still sit right on the transom, but don't feel as it I need to be 2 feet behind it.

Nigel 3445

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