Nondouble bottom boats

[DavidW]

That should sort your problem Philip. You may need to back the jib a bit at fist to get to bear away enough then sheet it in on the other side and let it steer you onto your course. sheeting in the main will tend to turn you into the wind so must be left until you have adequate steerage way. Have you tried sailing with no rudder yet? It's well worth it as it teaches you a lot about handling the boat (not recommended for racing though!)

Back to the original issue  - I''m sure there could be a market for " in beteweenies" on the floor height. This would help with the righting problems and add to the comfort factor - particularly I think for those in the front. Fortunately my knees haven't complained too much about the double bottom but I'm not sure that my physio thinks my light weather sailing postion is particularly  beneficial to my back!
There is of course no reason why someone shouldn't commission a lower floored or new single bottomed boat - the latter may well be cheaper to build too? Apart from the questionable aesthetics Gavin's boat certainly fits the bill for Gerry  - there must be a halfway house solution  too on the sheerline height which could produce a boat kinder on the eye but with a bit more knee room - should we look forward to seeing you in a new boat Gerry!

It could give someone  more confidence on taking the single bottom route if they new that others might follow - or that there would be a demand later on the second hand market at similar prices to those of double bottomed boasts  - views?

Cheers

David
3841

[JimC (Guest)]

Actually, thinking about it, what does make you feel the need to kneel in a double bottom boat... No arguing with the phenomenum, but I don't find myself doing it if I jump in a Topper or a Laser, and they have little false floors and very low rise to the side decks... Do you think its as much to do with the width of the decks as anything else? Oris it maybe a feel thing with centre of gravity? Has anyone sailed a 59er? Supposedly Bethwaite designed that with the mature sailor in mind, but it is false floor... Do you end up kneeling when you sail that?

[John Murrell (Guest)]

David,

I thought that Derek was going for the latest sail no with 3510..................... do you know something the rest of us don't?

And as to a 'new' AC boat, the egg has been laid, just not sure how long it will take to hatch!, depends on knee ops and the like ( Sorry Paul T you and I have something in common - Wild Oats?)

[Paul Turner N2487/3500 (Guest)]

Not certain who is" laying the egg" but I have now built up a specification from this discussion group, and from personal experience, of a design for those of us who are over 42, slightly on the heavy side, have knee problems, don't necessarily have the same crew every week and want a simple to sail easy to maintain N12 yot at a reasonably cheap price - not hi-tech but reasonably competative.

What a dream!

[davidg (Guest)]

"reasonably cheap price - not high tech but reasonably competitive"

This is probably the hardest part of the spec.  The difference in the cost of a low tech boat versus a high tech boat is going to be the difference in the cost of materials, the labour costs are likely to be the same.  To compromise on the rig or foils will probably save you say 15% of the total price, but will still be more than a good high tech boat with all the toys.

The only way really to get the costs down is to get sufficient interest that allows a series of hulls to be produced, probably where you have direct access to the buider.

I think that this thread has identified some of the improvements which might make for a more comfortable and ergonomically better 12.  It should also be possible to produce a stiff boat which has some of the benefits of a self draining hull.  On a wavy Burton Week course the single floor boat is still  likely to be better, but since Burton Week is about the only decent sea venue that we have left, this should not be considered as the be all for development for most of the class.

Kevin has reminded me of the possibilities of a thick sandwich construction in lieu of a double floor, this would also make for a stiff boat.

Interesting stuff.

David
3461

[Dave Croft]

Perhaps what is needed here is for a builder such as Winder to offer a single bottom option. They have developed a very stiff Merlin along this theme so I would think a 12 could be easily adapted. The problem of going it alone is one of investment and the risk you run of spending a lot of money on a boat that maybe you would find hard to sell, if it has the backing and name of a builder like Winder then you mitigate this I think. I know of some crews (mine included) who refuse to sail a double bottomed boat a problem that probably was not considerd at the time the decision was made to go that route. I watch this will great interst as I'd like to take up regular 12 sailing when the kids move on from Cadets in a few years time.

[gerry ledger]

David I have tried Winder they aren't interested at the moment and the moulds may be for sale.Perhaps we should speek to P&B

[icecreamman]

I have been off line for a while due to holidays and come back to a host of interesting things being discussed. To barge in on one of the points made regarding AC boats and emptying. I do not believe there is a maximum number of self bailers that can be put into a boat. My old ACer which rarely sees the light of day has four Super Suck bailers, two just behind the bow tank and two more in the usual place just under the thwart and no transom flaps due to stern tank. I have not had too many problems getting rid of water when inadvertently going for a swim either on open water or on a river. As has been mentioned previously, getting the water below the level of the plate case is the key.