NTOA membership, why bother?

Antony (Guest) · 23 Oct 2006, 05:13

I thought these comments from Stu were interesting enough to warrant a thread of their own:

Ok I can see that this would save money for the association but how would this money be spent and how would I as a member who is not active on the open circuit benifit from this???
The only thing I get from the association at present for my membership is the news letter and ratchet, rather an expensive bit of paperwork but I think well worth it.
If this is taken away I will probably not renew my membership because I can have access to the website free of charge and can keep in general touch through these pages and the website as it is. I enjoy the members area but it is no substitute for the news letter/ratchet.
It seems this would be a win win situation for active members who have the time and finances to go to opens/champs as there would be more money in the pot for prizes etc, cos what else will we spend everybodies money on, and remember it is everybodies money however active thewy are in the fleet.
It will be a big lose/lose situation for members like me, with a young family and skint where the money given to the association is a struggle and a struggle to justify to the wife and kids when they go without, what benifit would it be for me, I would end up with a lot less. I look forewards to somebody refuting this and telling me all the benifits I and others in my situation will gain. Hope i am wrong and people will come up with lots of benefits because I am sure the majority of members are in my situation and only really take part in club racing with no imput from the NTOA.

Stuart Walsh N3317

Antony (Guest) · 23 Oct 2006, 05:29

rick perkins · 23 Oct 2006, 05:44

Having been involved with a number of class associations I would encourage all to participate.

Without the association there is no class - with no class that boat you have has no identity & value. Just look at what has happened so some classes that have imploded.

The benefits of the association are many it's just in some cases the only tangible benefit is the bit of paper that drops through the letterbox ... but as has been pointed out there is more to it than that.

With RYA membership that is also a point of contention but I have been a member for 20 years and now our club is involved in a legal battle over rents the RYA are covering half the costs ... another organisation that does a lot for the sport in the background.

In the scheme of a years entertainment the class assocations fees is a small figure.

If everyone contributes a little it all piles up - the association can then help promote and develop your class adding value to your boat so you benefit.

Rick

THG · 23 Oct 2006, 05:47

Should we make more of the technical / support areas of the 12 website only open for members? The RS Association do this. That way its not free for all but free for those that support it. The forum and other areas that help to attract in members should be 'free' as part of the NTOA support costs. I'm involved in table tennis through my sons and each event they play in attracts a ETTA levy. For each Open event / training etc another option could be some part of the entry fee is for NTOA and not the organising Club.

For the BW - how are the fees set? It must include some charged costs from the location - but this does not rise significantly if there are more entries? If we had 100 boats at BW this year what would have been the 'surplus' - could this be used to help encourage more entries - the more that enter, the less the cost per boat. You could then have a lower fee structure or at least a cash back option maybe???

Kean
NTOA paid up member

antony (Guest) · 23 Oct 2006, 06:38

Kean,
On the website your question is a good one. In an ideal world I would prefer everything to be openly available and people to join anyway in recognition of the value that the association adds.

On Burton Wk you are right, the vast majority of the costs of hosting Burton Wk are fixed. The financial arrangements with the hosts vary from year to year but your assumption that 100 boats at Porthpean would have resulted in a large surplus is correct. In practice we have tended to share some of that with the hosts as they have some unexpected costs, and spend some during the week on making sure that everybody has fun. The result is that Burton Wk tends to break even over time as any excess is 'reinvested'.

If there was a desire to offer a reverse auction type entry fee I would be happy to look into it, with an entry fee rebate to all competitors depending on the turnout. In practice I have never been convinced that the entry fee is a major issue as it is only part of the cost of the week and once you have rented a place, filled the car and then eaten and drunk your way through the week it is no more than about 1/3rd of the total cost.

Incidentally for those at Porthpean I have already got some good news about Brixham YC, they have a flexible license!

Antony

mack · 23 Oct 2006, 08:37

Jimbo42 · 23 Oct 2006, 09:26

JimC (Guest) · 23 Oct 2006, 10:56

The biggest thing the class association does for its members is make it possible to sell your boat for a reasonable price when you no longer want it... A boat with a collapsed class association tends to be worth an awful lot less than one with an active one. From a purely selfish point of view what the class association gives you is cheap advertising and marketing for your boat...

MikeDay · 24 Oct 2006, 07:18

Just two more observations on this thread - first the cost of membership bears no relation to the value. The NTOA functions in the way it does because many people give their time and skills entirely free of charge. Without them, the NTOA wouldn't exist or would cost each member hundreds of pounds a year. If you want to know who they are, look in the front pages of the yearbook and say thanks next time you meet any of them.

Second, I am now in my 37th year of continuous membership (good grief, that makes me old!) and managed to continue belonging through all my impecunious younger days. I have always regarded it as an honour to belong to the NTOA, regardless of any benefit that might be associated. I sense that most Twelve owners feel the same.

Mike D
N3496

icecreamman · 24 Oct 2006, 07:22

I think the majority of members would agree with your points Mike. It is indeed an honour to be a member of the NTOA and feel equally as proud to sail a 12, despite all the money it has cost me in membership etc.

marcus3292 · 24 Oct 2006, 07:42

tedcordall · 24 Oct 2006, 07:48

"All the money"? Well I suppose it does add up over the years but actually a year's membership costs less than the average night out in the pub. (not that I go to the pub as I have two small children, but you know what I mean).

I think my membership is well spent and I don't even have a 12! I want one but as we have major crewing issues at our club (ie there aren't any) I sail a single hander. However I get daily pleasure from the forum and a suprising amount of technical info which is indirectly applicable to other classes (as an act of charity I crew an Albacore).

When you think of what else you can actually buy for the cost of membership of the NTOA you need to sit down and ask yourself, " Does the baby really need those new shoes".

martin 1262 · 24 Oct 2006, 07:51

Jimbo41 · 25 Oct 2006, 08:08

I'm a fully paid up member Martin!!!!

I came to BW this year and put the fee for the following year directly into the hands of our Honorary Treasurer Michael Brookman, bless him. I'll be doing the same in 2007 and this time we'll even be with a boat!!!

Keep it up peeps - the job you're doing is awsome!!!!

Jim N3130 (Wood - good at heart!)

NTOA membership, why bother?

Antony (Guest)

Antony (Guest)

antony (Guest)

JimC (Guest)