Pipedream set up?

JODA · 31 May 2007, 12:41

Hi,

Trying to set up a Pipedream (2999) that has a daggerboard.

Anyone got any setting data mast/rigs.

Crew Weight varies between 28 Stone & 18 Stone.

Based Blithfield.

Thanks

Dave

Derek · 05 Jun 2007, 01:46

Though I'm nothing of an expert on Pipedreams, from memory they were often set up with some inovative rigs. Needlespar sections 1.5" as well as 2" were in vogue at the time = very soft. This was combined with quite full sails and a jib sheeting angle that allowed the jib to be sheeted in with the leech almost touching the mast - the slot being adjusted by both helm and crew playing with the sheet tension and kicker to generate the appropriate twisted parallel slot.

For club sailing this seems needlessly complicated today. Stick to something fairly simple out of any of the guides with a slightly tigher than standard sheeting angle to take advantage of the fact that the hull is very easily driven. It also. given the bussle in the aft rocker tacks very well and should also carry reasonable amounts of weight. Though it has to be said that much beyond 25st is likely to be a bit of a challenge.

You have an interesting boat there! Good luck with it!

Nick Price · 05 Jun 2007, 05:12

FWIW I was sailing a Pipedream on Sunday with a crew weight of about 25 Stone and it was a problem keeping the stern out of the water. The bow entry is very fine and when you get your weight forward it goes pretty deep. Have to say this was only the 2nd time I have sailed a 12, Merlins being the more usual transport.
Nick

hairy dog · 06 Jun 2007, 12:32

being a bit of an expert at making a Pipedream go slowly I have some thoughts on what I should have done (hindsight being a wonderful thing)

1. lightweight, flexible mast
2. decent, full cut i.e. powerful sails. Hull shape will give the height that flat sails would otherwise help achieve.
3. Rudder of larger size than the current vogue. by getting the weight forward and the back end out of the wet stuff less rudder is in the water.
4. accept that you won't plane as soon or as long as Baggies or the newer designs. Get in a tacking duel and beat them upwind and on light days.
5. Diet.

JODA · 06 Jun 2007, 01:15

Thanks for the comments, off out tonight to try with std rake set up.

Normal crew will be my 10 yr old son so less than 18 Stone all up should fly.

Alternative 24 stone set up very deep in the water!!!
Self bailers are in bailers in this mode.

Tacks amazingly fast and needs a very gentle helm.

Dave

Jimbo41 · 06 Jun 2007, 01:44

[quote by=JODA link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1180611688,s=4 date=1181132110]

Tacks amazingly fast and needs a very gentle helm.

Dave[/quote]

That's why I'm not sure that you'd really need an extra big rudder - even if the transom is out of the water cf. comments by Hairy Dog.

Have fun - I'm doing the same all day tomorrow - it's a Bank Holiday in Germany.

Cheers!

Jim.

hairy dog · 07 Jun 2007, 04:51

not "an extra big rudder" just a proper sized one of adequate depth!

The modern Winder/Aardvark blades appear to be sharply tapered and of fine chord that is very efficient at high/planing speed but (IMO) not so effective when sniggling up the bank in a dying breeze.

The original rudder on my Pipedream was a small, long, rectangular blade however on a whim I tried a 'spitfire wing' profile of similar depth that may have added more drag but gave me more control.

As I said earlier I was never fast (22 stone didn't help) but the changes I made gave me the impression that the boat was getting faster!

Of the limited number of N12's I sailed - Design 8, Tigress, Baggy, Baggy(mod) and Foolish; the Pipedream was the 'nicest'.

JODA · 08 Jun 2007, 08:24

Hi,

When you say Big rudder, what size?

Found huge amounts of lee helm in the fresh breeze of Wednesday.

May be due to the excess weight forward so need to try with my lighter crew to get proper balance.

However, brought a real smile to our faces much like my Phantom when the boat accelerates.

Going to have huge fun with this old boat I can tell

Thanks for comments.

Dave

Nick Price · 10 Jun 2007, 09:30

Picture of pipedream rudder here. Shame about the boat!
http://www.ranelagh-sc.co.uk/Images/Pipedream%20rudder.jpg
Nick

hairy dog · 11 Jun 2007, 12:39

[quote by=JODA link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1180611688,s=7 date=1181287494]Hi,

When you say Big rudder, what size?

Found huge amounts of lee helm in the fresh breeze of Wednesday.

May be due to the excess weight forward so need to try with my lighter crew to get proper balance.

However, brought a real smile to our faces much like my Phantom when the boat accelerates.

Going to have huge fun with this old boat I can tell

Thanks for comments.

Dave
[/quote]

Bigger than the one in Nick's photo (that's similar to the original one my boat had). The big blade was about 3 ft deep, eliptical (spitfire wing shaped) probably at least a foot at the widest chord.

Surprised you had lee helm in a breeze; there are some experts here who'll give good advice but try more mast rake (hang a weight from the main halyard and check you have at least 12-18" at the goose neck - make sure c/board case is level).