AGM - Weight Carrying

[Antony]

The full minutes of the AGM will be in the next mailing, about 2 wks from your doormat.  They do not always carry the after meeting discusssion, so in the interests of those posting on this forum on the subject I thought that i would share a section on weight carrrying.

The Technical Committee were asked by the then Chairman (me) in early 2007 to consider cheap and practical ways to make the heavier crew combinations more competitive.  Bear in mind that this Committee includes designers, sailmakers and regular 12 enthusiasts with an interest in the more technical aspects and is about as good a body as exists in this country to answer the questions without enormously expensive testing.

The answer:
There is no good answer, and specifically it was their view that a bigger rig would not help, as the lighter crews would learn how to handle it in breeze, and the lighter people would simply start to gain their advantage in lower wind speeds (potentially meaning more of the time) as they would plane in less wind.  In addition any additional sail area would make the boat harder to sail,

A longer boat, the best solution but regarded as impractical.
A narrower boat, as above.
More weight in the hull, a possible but controversial idea.  It is the case that the TC opinion was that to remove more weight from the boat would make the issue they were asked to consider worse.

In conclusion there seemed little for the General Committee to take forward, but I want the membership to understand that these issues are discussed pretty regularly.  Bear in mind, in addition, that the 12 already has a pretty wide weight range for a lightweight racing dinghy beacuse you can match your wieght with a hull shape and rig to suit.

I can name plenty of boats that I am either too light or too heavy to sail, some of which i quite fancy!

Antony
ex-Chairman, NTOA

[rick perkins]

I think you should stop agonising about what you can't do and start getting excited about what you can do ... so it's a lightweights boat, great, find some lightweights who want to sail a very nice racing dinghy.

Every class has an ideal weight and for the 12 it's quite light that makes it ideal for parent/child partnerships.

If I wanted to sail with my child (if I had one) then I would chose a 12, what are the alternatives a Mirror or Feva??

The 12 is a very sophisticated and elegant racing dinghy for lightweight teams. You can still build you own to your own design in your garage if you wish on a budget (large or small)... you have loads of things to be positive about, I'd stop worrying about things that the boat can't be and start getting motivated about the good bits ...

[THG]

[Phil Brown]

[Tim L (Guest)]

"RS200s get 130 boats because they go to LDC and they buy a boat that is identical to the one being sailed by the guys at the front of the fleet."

Yeah, that's another interesting quirk of psychology - for some reason people are more accepting of sailing at the back of a one-design fleet than in a development class even though they probably realise its their sailing and not the boat at fault (i.e. they could compete more cheaply in an old development class boat for a similar result but for some reason it bugs them - RS/Laser marketing has turned the 'One-designs are fairer' mantra into a truth you're not allowed to question).

Interesting to see a guy at Salcombe who had an old cheap baggy back around 2000.  He left the class soon after (though I don't know the reason why) and now sails at Salcombe in a very new looking 200.  He's still at the back but hey, if you want to pay five times more for the same result its obviously fairer.....

[Jimbo41]

[quote by=rick_perkins link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1187682825,s=1 date=1187686834]I think you should stop agonising about what you can't do and start getting excited about what you can do ... so it's a lightweights boat, great, find some lightweights who want to sail a very nice racing dinghy.

Every class has an ideal weight and for the 12 it's quite light that makes it ideal for parent/child partnerships.

If I wanted to sail with my child (if I had one) then I would chose a 12, what are the alternatives a Mirror or Feva??

The 12 is a very sophisticated and elegant racing dinghy for lightweight teams. You can still build you own to your own design in your garage if you wish on a budget (large or small)... you have loads of things to be positive about, I'd stop worrying about things that the boat can't be and start getting motivated about the good bits ...

[/quote]

I agree with Rick on this - my daughter's coming up to 10 and weighs 45Kg -ideal to match my 92 - only problem is the "counterlever effect", due to unequal crew memberweights, but Gavin and also Mat Stiles seem to have mastered that problem at Burton Week. In the last race I had a mod. light crew  and we were flying along - although a combination of poor technique, lack of tuning and too thin Jib sheets made it difficult to compete. Lesley's hands were really badly raw and she got so tired we had to retire. We'll definitely be back next year for BW at Teignmouth, but with a lighter crew and I intend to loose a few pounds too!!! For me, heavy or not, the 12 is definitely going to be used this last bit of the season and next year.

Cheers to one and all!

Jim  N3470

[Jerry G]

[philipcosson]

I am mightily reassured by this thread.

It is great to read that the TC has discussed this issue recently.

Let's have a new marketing drive "buy a 12 and beat obesity"

I've dropped from 13.5 st to 12st since owning one. I never stood on the scales before!

I wonder what the average BMI of 12 sailors is... (mine is 22.4)

http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/

Philip

[THG]

"the government doesn't want you to be so heavy...."

anyone have teenagers that likes Little Miss Jocelyn?

Need to shave off a few pounds.... :B to get BMI down, at least I can swap crews sometimes   which helps avoid the issue (at least when sailing)

[jammy dodger]

BWI is complete b@@??@#s if you are fit and exercise regularly. I got down to 12.5 stone and everyone thought I was pegging out. A medium build and a lot of cycling / sailing was hardly making me obese! Like all their rugby chums, both my sons (Tom & Rory) are 'clinically' obese, funny that... in Rory's case he is almost verging on fanatic about training.
I cycle and sail, seems to be a good combination as the old legs can last all day on bike or boat. Fitness is pretty central to effective sailing, but muscles are heavy... so do I lose the muscles and weigh less or let them waste away and weigh even less?
Time on the water is the answer, all I need to do is find the time!

[greight expectations]

[canon fodder]

I would just like to point out that rohan and i tip the scales at around 15 stone and would be most upset if anything was done to make it even more difficult for us to keep up with the fatties. The 12 is a great family boat lets keep it that way.
By the way I also put on weight as I get fitter but not enough to make much difference and it doesn't seem to make much difference how many chocy buscuits and chips Rohan eats he still doesn't get heavier or at least not fast enough.

[greight expectations]

BMI must be a very crude measure as it makes no distinction between what a body is made of,  whether it be fat deposits or muscle.  I accept that muscle is easily prone to degenerating to fat but to label a 5'7" individual weighing 12st as over weight (with no fat to go) smacks of stupidity and should bring the measure of BMI to ridicule.  Are there any readers who can shed some reliable light on the issue?

On the other issue of crew with #1 crew at University I find getting a  regular crew to be quite difficult especially for opens  - last year dont think I sailed with the same crew more than 3 times and then not in a row.  Perhap the answer is to allow single handed sailing?  

Roger (trainee Pie Boy)

3334

[janeysailor12]

Can I just say........you lot have got it easy    I need to be light for the 12 and heavy for the B14.....work that one out!   Do I eat pies or do I not eat pies!!  THAT is the question

Janey x  

[greight expectations]

The difficulties of being so fay!

Roger

3334