Messages

I have no knowledge of the planning so far, but i am looking forward to a weekend with loads of 12s about with great excitement.  The dinghy show is an excellent starter for a 70th celebration.  Evidently organising big events is all about compromise.  I would be disappointed if the Class was not prepared to make an extra special effort to attend and it would be sad to see a one-off clash with another event cause any friction at any clubs.  Many clubs have been involved over 70 years including but not only RHYC.  There cannot be a more central venue to have the meeting than Northampton so lets get behind it!

I will offer myself to work hard to get the '30 something' aged people to turn up for it.

john.

Disagree with the rater comment.  Come down to Upper Thames Sailing Club and watch them tack.  They have to give the rig a right seeing to so that the battens to pop through on a tack.  Fortunately they are heavy enough that you are able to put this amount of energy into the rig without cheating.  I have sailed one.  They are very nice.  They are not National 12s.

I was asked to propose the sort of change which I think could be good.

Rule 11.3.6 shows the current allowed heights as

1/4 height 3F/4 + 470mm
1/2 height F/2 + 565mm
3/4 height F/4 + 530mm

Very simply my proposal would be to reallocate some of the mm from the 1/4 height to the 3/4 height.  There is probably a mathematical rule that says by shortening the bottom one you need to add more at the top to maintain the same overall area.

To keep is simple, lets assume that 150mm at the 1/4 height is worth 300mm at the 3/4 height.  The proposal would be

1/4 height 3F/4 + 320mm
1/2 height F/2 + 565mm
3/4 height F/4 + 830mm

Caveats

1 - I have no idea if this is the magnitude of the problem that can be seen on the mainsail. ie the problem may not be as large as 150mm, it may be more.
2 - I do know as a measurer that few sails are built out to the maximum 1/4 height allowed anyway
3 - I have assumed that the 1/2 height stays the same and the area pivots around it.  If a large chunk is taken of the 1/4 height we may need to move the 1/2 height or we will just get the same problem somewhere else.
4 - will a larger 3/4 height require a 4th batten?

Proposal

Dont change the rule now, but have a look instead.  I feel the 4th batten could be genuinely speed enhancing as the rest is just a reallocation of area.

I am not intending to submit anything to the AGM as I am not sailing enough to justify this.  I do think a change of this ilk would be good if the sailmakers were supportive and they essentially constructed the rule.

John Meadowcroft
N3473

Quick reply!

I would not support fully battened right now.  Too much change.  Would support an experiment / dispensation regarding the rig, but would more strongly support a minor rig change rather than a major rig change.  We should be clear that change will not generally attract more people to the class than it will deter within it.  If we want more numbers on the water then we should continue to concentrate on what we know we are good at rather than taking punts so that we hope we end up somewhere that we might like to be.  Changes that support the value of secondhand boats are good as they inspire confidence.

john
n3473

If we are going to solve a 'problem' lets solve one that maybe exists!

I would suggest that building sails out of 'modern' materials compared to dacron has some longetivity risks that we should address.  As sails get older creases appear from the clew towards the inboard end of the bottom batten.  This gets worse and worse.  

In the photo at the top of this page you can see the crease starting to develop on the white and blue boats sailing off on port tack.  You can also see another couple of examples in the centre spread of the 2004 annual newsletter in the photos at the top of each page (yes one of them is my boat, so there is a vested interest).  Another example on page 52!

I think that the problem could be eliminated and the sail last longer by

- considering the current restrictions on the number of batten and/or batten lengths
- consider changing cross height measurement limits on the sails

I would not advocate changing the overall area but redistributing it, maybe an extra batten.  As a starting point take 200mm off the bottom measurements and redistribute.

I do not believe that this would attract people to our class, but sail life is very important to everyone in the Class so we should consider.  Rule changes should however not be externally focussed, they should be primarily good for the people who are around today.  The sail measurement calculations were last considered before the advent of the modern rigs we have today.  I think that this would be a decent opportunity to allow some new ideas into the rigs based on the existing spars.  Were I to be sailing enough to justify it, I would ask for a dispensation.  

A potential rule change caused by other popular developments that have happened, rather than a rule change which might give rise to unpopular developments.

Probably needs a response from a sailmaker......  Kevan, Tom ?

John Meadowcroft
N3473

EXPLANATION

Katy and I sailed an NS14 when we were in Australia.  Essential characteristics were 14ft long, 2 sails, daggerboard, fully battened main on rotating rig.  The rig was an overrotating rig, with an aerofoil section.

What is the problem with the rig?

The rig is excellent when you dont have to fiddle with it.  Every time you have to tack (eg short tacking up the bank at Salcombe) you have to physically tack the mast (it has a handle on it).  This did not make the crew happy as too little/too much leach tension caused problems.  A bit like a very dodgy top batten.

If your crew is big enough no problem.

This is my view - hope it helps - there may no doubt be others.

an age old debate.  I think wire is best, but requires the most maintenance which is generally bad.

i currently use lightening rope which i have spliced to length at either end.  This is very low stretch.  You have to be a bit patient as there is some initial stretch whilst the splice beds in.  At the mast tip I have spliced a shackle, and at the heel of the mast I put the spliced loop onto an old fashioned teeth rack.  This enables me to consistently reproduce the same setting in the knowledge that the top of the sail is close to, but below, the top black band on the mast.

Lightening rope is not cheap, you need to get the length just right, which does mean numerous adjustments initially, but being able to reproduce settings is very useful.  if you are clever with how you make the splices (start with larger loops) you should be able to shorten and move the stressed parts like Dave Greening suggests.  We have yet to experience much wear - that maybe due to the boat spending more time in the garage than on the water though.

I have long been an advocate of not using wire and have had both spectra and dyneema, but have preferred to use a wrap around cleat rather than a cam cleat.  the problem if i have always had with this is being able to reproduce the same setting as when it is breezy and you have lots of cunnignham or kicker on it inevitably slips a little.

I also have a very light tail on the halyard.  it is like chicken wire.  the missus wont touch it.  Tom Stewart has the same.  it saves another few ounces of weight.

halyards.  almost as fun as slot gaskets.........