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Messages - Antony3514

The Gifford family are coming down from sunny Scotland with N3529 and N3348.  Like Kevin (with 3373) we are hoping not to take 3348 home, and that she will go to place where she spends more time on the water and less in the shed.

General National 12 chat / Re: Newbie.
19 Mar 2021, 11:10

Don't rule out a boat from the previous generation.   There are some pretty quick examples of Foolishes and Chapters that have been converted with the addition of a winged rudder.   You might also find, at least at the club in handicap racing, that you prefer sailing with a normal rudder around Salcombe, and the DCB does not work without the wings.   My suggestion, if you can face the geographic issues, would be to see if you can pick up a cheap Foolish and get it to Walton (Essex) for Simon Hipkin to fit a winged rudder.   The combined cost will still be a lot less than a DCB (if you can find one).

Antony Gifford

I must have an old one that came with our Design 8 that should fit ok.   I am guessing you are not far enough north for us, we are north of Dundee.  I will take a look at send you a photo so we can decide if it is worth the cost of posting it to you.   From memory it will keep the UV off the varnish but not the water out....

That is really sad news.  Jonathan was a real character.   Having not seen him for years Jo and i organised some Oppie training at Ardleigh (2015?) not knowing that he was involved.   He was the Commodore and could not do enough to help, opening up the club each morning to let us all in before donning his apron and cooking bacon for breakfast and then some huge pasta dish for the sailors lunch.   Funnily enough, i now think of him standing in the kitchen with an apron on rather than sailing his old N12 on a muddy estuary in East Anglia.
We should have two boats on the beach on Sunday, a Design 8 and a DCB.   Happy to help.

At least one of them will also be doing the Blinkhorn.

As a follow up to what Jennie has written a few points.
1.  We sail a Design 8 at the club.  They have allowed us to use the age adjusted handicap that is on this site somewhere.   A Design 8 and a full rig Laser are pretty close on PY on this basis, and on my observations over many years this is about right.
2.  Course and wind strength are key - taking out the minor variable of skill levels in the boats!   Light and upwind are basically good for the 12, stronger and broad downwind legs will suit the Laser.  Small changes in leg angles often determined the winner when we sailed at Royal Harwich, a weather going tide was bad news for us as it shortened the beat and lengthens and broadens the off-wind legs.
3.  You should always out-point them - unless they are pinching to avoid hiking.   In a force 4 pull the kicker on harder.
4.  An old Lark is basically a 12 built of floppy GRP with a spinnaker.... whether they beat you is likely to depend on effective use of the spinnaker.

Hope this helps.   Have fun.
General National 12 chat / Re: DCB
25 Nov 2009, 02:38
I did, a few years back, and even then i stopped at £16,500 and bought an early sistership for £9,500!  At least with the 12 there is material design progress in the last 10 years.  I guess it would be cheaper to build without those quaint plank effects that they put on the outside...
I am about to put together the basic rota to ensure that the stand is fully manned for the weekend.  Thank you to all of those that have already been in touch, and a reminder that it is not too late to volunteer some time if you now know when you will be at the show.


You are muddled. I have done it two years in a row (different crews) but the good results were Fran and Sophie and Graham and Sam. I am just the wingman....

Boats / Re: N3297 Anarchy
21 Mar 2008, 11:46
Pretty sure this is the boat my brother owned for a year or two in the early 1990s.  

From memory i think that he must have sailed at Burton Wk 1992 at Exmouth, crewed by a young Ian Williams (now of match racing fame).  It was an 'interesting' build, with a strange wooden space frame to hold it all together.

Antony Gifford
Sadly I have to report that the Phantom class beat us to the class prize.  It possible that we could have held off the 2nd Phantom had it not been for a brief swim on the last beat.. but that is another story.  

G & Sam sailed a great race and finised overlapped with both the 1st and 3rd finishing boats, exactly how a pursuit race should conclude.

Was good fun, but never accept an invitation to race a serious regatta in a high sided dock... i think that i prefer the Thames.

Cook sorted, so Dinner will be good.  Enquires to Bruce & Clare Johnson.

PRO sorted, so sailing will be good.  Enquires to me!

Babysitting sorted, so we will be at both!


I have finally managed to send an entry form and cheque to Janet.

At this point we should probably make a small confession, if you enter early you will find that you have significantly less distance to pull your boat every morning and evening.  This information, along with so much else, is in the delayed mailing that should be with people by the end of next week.

If anybody wants thoughts on where to stay, whether to come etc. then feel free to get in touch with either myself or John Meadowcroft who can be reached at

Enter early, enter often...

More importantly,

Anne with much help from many including Mike & Alison Edwards produced a top lunch that was enjoyed by many of differing ages and interests.  Strangely the paper aircraft part of the proceedings seemed to appeal to all....

Thanks to all involved, especially those that persuaded me on to the river and those that helped entertain and nourish our boys.

As far as i can tell from the Ranelagh website the start is 11.15 on Sunday.  Anybody disagree?  

Looking forward to it, i might even go sailing there myself, and especially to the fusion lunch that will follow!

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