Forestay or not, so to say !

[jeremyf]

Tony E, previous maestro of 2760 deleted the forestay from its spec and replaced the wire jib haliyard with some very snazzy string ! Nice and light but
This weekend I did notice some very odd noises from the front end ( rig not crew) as we messed about on a very turbulent River Avon in about a 5 or 6.
What is the opinion of the accumulated wisdom on the subjects of a) not having a forestay and b) dynema vs stainless for the jib haliyard.
At the moment the missus is on sailing strike so my mate next door ( Ocean yacht sailor!) is first mate so we are about 24st between us, hence the rig gets some stick when the wind blows.
 
Thanks in advance for advice

[Antony (Guest)]

Tony E, to the extent that consensus tells you where the combined wisdom of the class is:
Very few boats have a forestay.
I have never seen a rope jib halyard, although i know that in theory they are strong enough and do not stretch more than wire.
Antony

[icecreamman]

If you still have the solid bit of foredeck behind the mast as per the photographs the need for a forestay is even more negligible as there is a bit of something the mast can rest against when putting it up. If you are really worried about the mast bouncing out of its step when you let the shrouds off in a blow, make sure you have your pin in the bottom. This can save a call to Patrick at Noble Marine as well as a bit of time off sailing as the builders are waving their magic wands over the bottom of the boat.

[tonyelgar]

The string in question was Dyneema core so plenty strong enough with an outer to reduce the effect of wear that wire I admit is less inclined to do. Also the lack of forestay was how i received the boat, and as icecreamman says, the surrounding deck reduces its need. I wouldnt say that U have to replace it but I personally would do whatever will give you peace of mind whilst sailing, since it is meant to be an enjoyable escape from worries!! My latest bucket, 3255 is all wire and again no forestay (but a monsterous aluminium space frame!), but i will probably go with the dyneema route again, assuming i dont in the mean time find any snag points that it wouldnt survive. I hope Jeremy you are getting as much enjoyment out of Grimalkin as you wanted!
 
Tony

[Tom Stewart (Guest)]

The reason that we don't fit rope/spectra or vectran jib halyards as standard on N12s is because the crimp in the plaited fibres usually has quite a lot of movement/give at the relatively low loads that we N12 sailors use. The rope manufacturers tell us that towards the top end of the load range this is not a problem, but I find the initial movement very annoying!

[jeremyf]

Thanks Guys,
In that case I think I will go for a wire haliyard and no forestay.
Whilst I 'know' the dyneema is strong enough i think I am to (old)fashioned  to drop good old wire !
Oh yes Tony, lots of fun. Planing on the Avon last sunday !  Didnt bust anything or go in - but only just.
River is in such flood at the moment I am hoping for a howler on this sunday too. Aim is to pull up the board and plane over the weir !:
Mast extended last night by the way, to reduce dented skull, now back to Needlespar spec ( all but an inch), trolley shortened to fit my combi and a few bits repositioned to suit my 'style' ( or lack thereof). Really very happy with her . ( just the colur and name - but I am firmly in my place regarding that one !)
 

[GarryR]

<div class="postbody">Many bits of advice concerning the old style jib tensioners where the jib is hauled up its own halyard and and hanked to the forestay say that this is done so that the forestay provides support to the jib luff and prevents sideways movement when beating to windward. On my 1947 Merlin where this arrangement is in place even if the forestay is relatively tight when "at rest" ie no rigging, once you pull up the jib and tension it, the forestay slackens to the point where it would flop about if the jib was not hanked to it. So I guess I am asking what is the point of hanking in the first place if there is all this untensioned forestay providing no support. In fact it seems to me that the jib luff stops the forestay flopping around than vice versa!!

[thedodger]

I have dyneema jib halyard and no forestay. Dyneema is many times stronger weight for weight than a wire halyard. Funnily enough the only thing I have broken this season was a wire shroud, not in my opinion through lack of maintenance!
Simon
3454 jammy dodger

[tonyelgar]

A backbone of the fleet i work with @ work is the bosun dinghy, which has a hank system on the jib attaching it to the forestay. The methods of applying the rig tension have changed from the mk 1 to the mk2 and new style masts, but the format up the jib juff has not, and when rigged to sail the forestay is often lose. Genreally on these types of boat the forestay is ther as a fail safe and/or there to simply hold the mast up when sat in the dinghy park, other boats, ie the rs800 seemt o apply rig tension in the forestay itself, then run the jib up a track, so there are many variants of how a boat can be setup. I would suggest the merlin mentioned might be like the bosun - which has very little other method like a mast gate to hold up the stick! 
Tony