control line layout

[simon ballantine]

One of my winter projects will be to sort out the control lines in my Design 8.  I am sure there are 101 ways of organising things, but I would be grateful for advice of what works well.
 
In particular, I need to sort out the shrouds.  The control lines currently go up to jam cleats on top of the CB case (usually being sat on by a crew with a bruised bum when it needs to be adjusted) and then back down to the centreline of the hull, held on shock cord back to the transom (always getting caught up under my feet).  Is there is a better way?  It would be nice to be able to let-off / re-tighten the leeward shroud from the windward side of the boat, but is this trying to be too clever?

Also the lowers.  Is it normal to pull on both sides at the same time and with the same tension...in which case a single control line could adjust both sides simultaneously?...or should I  be tensioning the windward one more..in which case they need to be controlled separately?  Also is an 8:1 purchase about right?

I am getting a bit fed up with telling my crew to tighten the jib sheet back up.... keeps going slack when the crew gets tired or distracted.  I have a pair of open cam cleats on top of the CB case, but they are difficult to get the sheet into when hiked since the board case is too low.  Has anyone tried open cam cleats up on the side decks adjacent to the shrouds, or would these be equally awkward to use?

I am new to 12's this year so any advice, however basic would be appreciated.

[Jimbo41]

Hi Simon.
On my Tigress the jib sheet runs though a cord fairlead block coming off near the shrouds. The sheet then runs down to a block adjustable back and forth on a ratchet,  to change the angle the sheet takes to the clew. It then runs up to curry cleats up rear of the the shrouds, just under the freeboard of the sidedecks. They are better than the open cleats. They also have a single block to guide the jib sheets through. The sheet can be left off cleat, when needed. Cleating off and on is done by jirking the sheet. I think they're Harken. Hope that helps.

Cheers and good luck in your 12.  

Jim N3130 (She was only an admiral's cupper, but she made a pretty strong brew)

[Antony (Guest)]

Simon,
The basic answer is that in a 12 you can put fitting where it suits you and your crew, not where some manufacturer told you to put them.  In answer to your specific questions:

1.  Keep the lowers together, there is no reason not to pull them on the same amount.  It is actually the leward one that is doing the work offwind as it counters the effect of the kicker pushing the mast sideways.
2.  Most of us do have our shrouds on the centreboard capping as it is an easy place to lead them to and you can reach both from either side.  It is not that common to then have the elastic takewaway.  You could try taking that off and see if it made life easier.  12 crews have bruises where they sit on stuff, they get used to it.
3.  Jib sheet cleats are common with smaller crews, I guess that easily bored crews also might need them.  It is important to remember that unlike less nimble dinghies a 12 can be knocked over by a cleated jib evenn if you are quick to let of the mainsail.  This means that by all means move the cleats around to somewhere that suits your crew, but make sure it is easy to get the sheet out of the cleat, and hard to accidentally cleat it.   A lot of jib cleats are where you suggest, just aft of the shrouds on the opposite side.

Have fun,
Antony

[angus]

On my china Doll I have cleets on the opposite side just behind the shrouds. My Crew is small and inanything much of a wind I have to cleat the jib by reaching behind him so we try to avoid short tacks. Even when its not windy his arms aren't long enough to cleat it. It works well for single handed sailing and we havn'rt been knocked down yet through failing to get the jib un jammed. Benn in just about every other way though.

[philipcosson]

how are the lowers "struts" on the "beast" controlled? Can they be adjusted on the water? I have removed my lowers system for the time being, and I am open to suggestions for a replacement system.

What is that boat really called BTW?

Philip N3253

[simon ballantine]

Thanks for the confirmation that cleats on the side decks will work,  I'll rig them up over the winter.

As for the lowers, what I have in mind is some Dynema rope tied to the mast just above the gooseneck, down through a block fixed to the shroud chainplates and then back to the mast just below deck level via  two cascades.  This is then led down the mast and tied off to a single block, along with it's partner coming from the opposite side.  A control line passes through the block, down to a couple of turning blocks at the mast foot and then up to cleats on the side deck near the shroud chainplates.  All adds up to 8:1 purchase.  

[Lukepiewalker]

It depends on your focus...

If you are keen to improve your speed and racing, then obviously control line placement is paramount. As has been mentioned you can put the controls just about anywhere if you want to try it. Cleats on the side deck up by the shrouds aren't unusual. Crossing the shrouds over is also perfectly acceptable, but watch out for routing around the centreboard case, mucho friction potential there. A plasterman for the jibsheets might be autoratchets, as this means there isn't any fiddling about switching them on and off. Certainly modern ones are much better than the old RWO ones that came with my first twelve... which didn't last long before I threw on some better ones.

If you are a shameless tart who just likes your shiny boat, then density is obviously your main concern when it comes to control lines... Read books and magazines... If you read of an obscure control that you haven't got investigate, I'll bet you can fit it in somewhere... Those centreboard cappings are spacious... Obviously in this scenario having seperate control of your lowers allows for another piece of string..
 

[Alex D]

Paste the links below for some pictures of the control for the lowers I inherited. I took them in preparation for my winter refit

http://www.cybercreatures.org/n12/DSCN0452_small.JPG
http://www.cybercreatures.org/n12/DSCN0453_small.JPG

Remove the "_small" if you have the bandwidth and want better resolution.

[Mikey C]

[quote by=simon_ballantine link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool,m=1159432891,s=5 date=1159547213]Thanks for the confirmation that cleats on the side decks will work,  I'll rig them up over the winter.

As for the lowers, what I have in mind is some Dynema rope tied to the mast just above the gooseneck, down through a block fixed to the shroud chainplates and then back to the mast just below deck level via  two cascades.   [/quote]


Not sure if I'm reading that right, but it sounds like the lowers are not returning to the mast at gooseneck height. This is bad, as you are losing half your lowers power.

Gooseneck-shrouds-gooseneck then down.

I'm probably at the wrong end of the string mind...

Cheers

Mike

[simon ballantine]

Thanks Mike,
I can see the benefit of returning the line back to the gooseneck.  Is the cascade then rigged vertically between gooseneck and mast foot ?

Perhaps autoratchets are the way forward.  I've got very old RWO ratchets on my jib sheets and they are next to useless.  Any suggestions for a decent bit of kit which won't break the bank?

[jonsue N3469]

Hi Simon, Regarding your jib cleats. We have only had our 12 since May, and I am a very new crew to sailing and still learning. (Only 3-4 months experience). My partner moved the cleats up onto the side on the bulk head, which saved my bum and made life easier in finding and controlling the sheet. Problem was the sheet kept being cleated in, hence adjusting the jib was very hard work as I was fighting against the cleats. We have tried today sailing without these cleats with a view to putting the cleats up on the side deck. It was fairly windly today, and despite my size (petite) I was able to hang onto the sheet and found it a much more interesting sail as I had a fully adjustable jib to play with. I am sure your crew will find the sailing experience more interesting with cleats on the side. I have instructed my helm to go ahead with the final fitting. I'm Sue, helm is John.