PY analysis at Burghfield

[philipcosson]

Just having a nosey around the Burghfield SC website (due to the fact I am yearning to go to this event, but cannot possibly attend due to the 500+ mile round trip and my imminent house move)

I was interested to see that the N12 PY is suggested to drop by 30 points to 1063 and the RS200 is suggested to increase to 1070.

When do the club act on these suggestions? is this just a 'for interest' type of analysis? will these be put into a national database and form recommendations to the RYA?

Reducing national PY number might be a consequesnce of smaller fleet size... the hypothesis might be - If only the expert sailors stick to the class, the average speed will increase and the PY come down, making the class less attractive to the novice. Maybe we need more sailors like me to get out and compete in boats like mine (and putting some respectable lap times in, i.e. coming last!)

Philip
N3253

[JohnMurrell]

Philip,

You raise an interesting question!

Firstly there is a percieved belief that Portsmouth Yardstick Numbers are unalterable when in fact the opposite is the case! Clubs chose not to change them because of the hassle it creates when numbers do get changed! I suspect that Burghfield are really looking at skill factors here and not reflecting the average midfleet Joe; remember who the Burghfield fleet are!

Twelves sail off a Secondary Yardstick because not enough Clubs put in annual returns, according to Ken Kershaw only 200 returns were recieved last year and I suspect very few clubs that have Twelves in their handicap fleet did.

To make things interesting in Salcombe this year I am running a seperate handicap class for our Twelves using the numbers published in the Yearbook ( that I will be sailing 3003 off 1130 against the Foolishes at 1093 doesn't come into it!) I will be looking at these very closely for this years annual return and suggest that we all ensure that our Sailing Committees do submit returns - even if we have to volunteer to do the job ourselves, yes its a hassle but ultimately surely worth it!?

Clubs sailing Twelves in Handicap classes should piont out to their Sailing Committees the comment from RYA Technical on P1 of the Portsmouth Number List 2007 where is says ' * Development classes where the Portsmouth Number is likely to vary depending on the age and design of the boats. Clubs should consider adjusting the Number where it does not reflect the performance of a particular boat (excluding Crew Skill Factor )

Interestingly the RS200 has a Primary Number so again I suspect that again its a skill factor problem - no I am NOT knocking them.........

[Mike S (Guest)]

Surely a reflection of the calibre of the 12 sailors at Burghfield - Grazz, Caroline M etc

[Jimbo41]

[quote by=philipcosson link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool1,m=1173433224,s=0 date=1173433224]

Reducing national PY number might be a consequesnce of smaller fleet size... the hypothesis might be - If only the expert sailors stick to the class, the average speed will increase and the PY come down, making the class less attractive to the novice. Maybe we need more sailors like me to get out and compete in boats like mine (and putting some respectable lap times in, i.e. coming last!)

Philip
N3253[/quote]


And me too!!!!  
Jim

[THG]

Yes - we can all become handicap bandits - buy a cheap old vintage - sailit in Club events and get returns and then sail the shiny new DBs at the Bloody Mary etc     Of course any event can decide to change the handicaps  

Our committee agreed a couple of years ago to adopt association recommended PYs esp. for 'development' boats - interestingly for us it was the Flying Fifteens that started this off as the majority of the fleet (if not all) are what they call 'classic' and use a higher PY.

Of course much nicer to get enough of a fleet and just sail as 12s - but its nice to be able to beat the RS200s/400s and the other ars*ametrics.

Kean

[philipcosson]

John said: Twelves sail off a Secondary Yardstick because not enough Clubs put in annual returns, according to Ken Kershaw only 200 returns were recieved last year and I suspect very few clubs that have Twelves in their handicap fleet did.

OK - this means that the N12 PY published by the RYA is likely to stay static I guess - and me coming last in a lot of club races is not going to have much impact.

If weight reduces in the rules or development of the rig or hull get to a point where the other classes feel the PY is no longer representative,  they will do this as an 'educated guess' I suppose in consultation with the National association.

I know about the age related PY advice, and Scaling do operate two PY's for the AC and DB. It dosent help me much!

I do realise getting out on the water is the key. But I may have a very reduced season this year due to other commitments  :-/ :-(

[JohnMurrell]

Philip, correct except that I very much doubt the RYA would talk to a Class Assn about it!! I may be wrong but Ken is adamant that there is no manafacturer input to PY's so by inference the same applies to a Class Owners Assn.......................

[Jimbo41]

Lads, if you think the discussion's complex in GB, try Germany.

I've spent 3 months trying to negociate a decent and reasonable local Ammersee Yardstick for Passion Pudding N3470. It's been uphill all the way, I can tell you.

They gave Nuttyshell N3130 a yardstick which was lower by 10% than a 420! I dread to think what the outcome will be for Passion Pudding (DB, carbon rig and Kevlar sail).  :-/

Incidentally, the 2006 PY  list merely omits the "National" from the National 12. Our class is clearly no longer considered to be National, although we the NTOA are still permitted to call it "National".  Strange. Maybe we should call it the "International 12" so as to really P**s them off....

Cheers!

Jim

[Lukepiewalker]

Not as much as you'd p**s off the International 12 sailors...

Maybe we should call it the Notional 12...
Or do one of those corporate rebrandings and drop the 'ational' and have the n in lower case...
Or stick an umlaut in there somewhere...

I have a daft streak a mile wide...

[JohnMurrell]

Mr Braithwaite, sorry Brethwick!  you shouldn't worry too much; last year when we were still a National Class the name National 12 had already become bastardised to 12'!!!!

[Lukepiewalker]

Although surely we should be concerned for all the old school types who hear a 12 mentioned and expect Australia II to come thundering by....

[Jimbo42]

[Lukepiewalker]

It is a bit of an obscure one. Mostly found in Holland, although apparently there is a revival going on in Italy too.

[Jimbo42]