Well?? The meeting was on the 27th September, when are us lot going to find out what's occuring?
Burton Week 2009 will be held at Thorpe Bay YC from Saturday 23 May until Tuesday 26 May. 7 races will be scheduled over 4 days including the Burton Cup provisionally scheduled on Bank Holiday Monday 25 May. There is already great interest in this event from many people who have either not attended Burton Week before or who have not attended in recent years. Please come along and enjoy what will be a great long weekend of National 12 sailing.
Thorpe Bay YC is near Southend in Essex and previously held Burton Week in 1965.
Kevin Iles is a member of Thorpe Bay YC and will be working hard to make sure that we get the regatta that we want.
Southend has lots to offer non-sailors, including an Air Show over the bank holiday weekend.
Some useful links
Thorpe Bay YC http://www.tbyc.org/ (http://www.tbyc.org/)
Southend Air Show http://www.southendairshow.com/ (http://www.southendairshow.com/)
Southend Tourist Info http://www.southend.gov.uk/content.asp?section=364 (http://www.southend.gov.uk/content.asp?section=364)
We are developing a website for the event and will hope to be launching it soon. Watch this space.
kind regards
John Meadowcroft
the dates of burton week this year will prevent anyone with exams from coming it is the first week of my university exam block and i guess very similar to anyone with a-levels, gcses etc...
it seems like a bit more thought could have gone into this...
If anyone thinks the plan to change the Burton Week format was made without considerable thought they are surely mistaken. The dates coincide with half term (suffolk) and we are planning ahead already. We should support everyone who organises our racing or perhaps they will not bother in future. For us the change in format is much more appealing, but equally appeciate other peoples views.
Good luck with the exams, I might think of you when we are sailing at Thopre Bay...
I'm in full agreement with Chalky - I'm certain that the event will appeal far more widely than a full week. Unless the whole family is into sailing it can be very hard to justify a week of valuable anual leave for any sailing event.
I've no doubt the champs will be very well organised and be a big success.
Cheers
I will work with Phil & David to make sure we get as many of the Spinnaker boats there as possible. Might be a problem for our students, but you can't please everyone all of the time! I am sure Tom, Ellie, James and the others will try their best to be there. Guess that means Rosie and I will be planning to be there. Simon 3454 'Jammy Dodger'.
As an ex-12 owner and ex-resident of Southend-on-sea I see this as a huge postive for the class. Thorpe Bay YC (I've never been a member but have sailed there a number of times) is a good club off the maninstream Nationals circuit with a good tidal window and good sailing. Well done to the N12 class for organising an event there - I'll start looking at the second hand list again!
My only reservation is it over the same weekend as the Air Tattoo - traffic and parking could be horrendous - get there *very* early.
Does this mean even more !2s for NWNW?
Barry
ex N33xx (forgotton the number!)
to have burton week over exam and revision time is a really bad idea,it is infact not half term that week for most of the country, and uni students dont have a half term. completly excluding young people from the champs like this will not help the class in any way, there are a lot of classes out there that we can compete in the whole years events. we are already struggling to get young people into the class (as one of them) i doubt il be able to make burton week next year either!i do think more thought should have gone into this and the whole class should of been consulted not just the comittee.
I've just spoken to Tom Walworth (my son), he says that the dates are effectively excluding anyone doing exams from the Championships. As we had all discussed getting as many Spinnaker boats there as possible that makes us three down immediately, those being exactly the guys and girls we need there to keep the class going in the future.
While we all respect the efforts all involved go to to organise and plan N12 activities, my view is a drawing board and a revisit is needed in order we do not exclude a goodly portion of the fleet.
Simon W 3454
Calm down, there won't be any exams on bank hliday monday at least
Phil
im sure as we all want to pass our exams we will be working and revising.
I am not on the Committee, but i am 100% sure that John Chalker is right that there was plenty of thought before this plan was agreed as the best way forward.
Tom W (for I suspect it is he not prepared to use his real name) and others need to appreciate that those that are running things are very focused on trying things that increase the number of 12s sailing at all the events including Burton Wk. It is obviously the big downside of late May that it does not work if you are taking exams in the following week or two. On the other hand this was discussed over a long period, including at the AGM. There were so few students/late school age people there that i am assuming that for some reason August does not work for them either... so I am struggling to see when the week could be held that would attract 12s.
Look on the bright side, if you cannot do Burton Wk in 2009 then make sure that you do at least one week of 12 sailing in the holidays, Salcombe, NWN and others have a seperate 12 class and start, and make it clear to the Chairman that you would have loved to come to TB were it not during exams. That at least gets boats on the water having fun, and gives those in charge an idea of what they lost/gained from the changes that were made in 2009 as they plan 2010 and beyond.
I hope that in 2009 we see a much better turnout at Burton 'Week' (say 60 boats) and maybe 5-10 more boats at the major holiday weeks... Jo and I are certainly thinking about doing a week in the summer if we can get the organisation to fall into place.
Antony
N3514
p.s. Sam, how did you find out when 1/2 term was outside your own county as it proved really difficult/time consuming? It is 1/2 term that week for (as far as i could tell) all of London and a lot of the places where other 12 parents live as efforts were made to check this.
p.p.s Good to see how many posts you can get in one day. I guess the cold grey weather helped!
I did the Burton at TBYC in 1965 and hope to be doing it again in 2009 and so will several Up River boats. I think its a good idea to try somthing different.so lets not knock OUR committee till we have tryed it
From a teachers perspective!
Because of public examinations (ie GCSE and AS & A2 levels) are national exams 1/2 term in the summmer is identical across all parts of England and Wales(end of 22/5-31/5). I cannot speak for scotland as they have a different exam system, but what I think that Sam is saying is that though it is half term many students will be studying for their exams in that period and study will be important! However, it is also important at that time of year that students do in fact take a little time to relax so the conscientious could in fact decide to have an intense few days racing and chillling then spend the rest of the half-term week (5days) on a carefully timetabled revision programme. It is important to have a balance and cramming is never the best way to achieve good exam results.
I do think that this a fabulous opportunity for 12's to get to Burton Week with the minimum of holiday loss (1 days holiday is al that is required) and it will be an intense and fabulous event. There will four days of socialising to go alongside the racing and with all the recently experienced BW party events included it should be a real blast!
As a newly elected member of the committee I can assure you that we did consider all aspects including the fact it would be during exam period, our aim was to try provide a length (4days), time and location, that would attract a greater number of boats to what is always a fantastic event, with a breadth that would be all inclusive to the different types of 12's sailed -DB- Admirals cuppers and Vintage.
More detail will follow and as has been stated by Meds I am working to build a Burton Week specific website that will explain all in some detail- from venue to measuring to socials.
So watch out, book early, as its coming......!
Due to the timing George and I are also looking at doing something Like Northfolk week or Salcome next year to expand our 12 sailing.
Jeremy
Two thumbs up from Alex and I.
Mike
N3491
yeah cheers jeremy that was what i was trying to say, must proof read before i post
Hi Antony, Tom W is not my name, Simon Walworth is as is clearly stated in my contribution when I say Tom Walworth is my son! Both Tom and I have 12's. Tom is at Bristol Uni I can assure you he has his third year exams then and is disappointed that he will probably miss the Championships. James and Elli are unlikely and I'm not sure about our other students at this stage.
I haven't been prepared to use the little time I get off (self employed) to go away for a week but will happily turn up with Rosie (my daughter) to Thorpe, even if it is the other side of the universe. ;D
Simon,
You misunderstood, i know who you post as. I think that you will find that 'student sailor' was probably your son Tom unwilling to identify himself for some reason. I might be wrong..
It is good to see that almost every consituent part of the class has had a chance to express a view already, except of course those sailing at Ripon and Yeadon this weekend who went out in their boats instead of sitting on the computer at home.
Antony
I am absolutely delighted that the Champs will be over 4 days and that I will only need to take 1 day of annual leave to be there. I don't get much annual leave (oh to be a student!!!!) and there is no way I could do the champs if they were in the summer holidays and required me to take a week of leave. Team Roly Mo will do all they can to be there in 2009 (crew needed if anyone wants to volunteer!) and hope it's a fantastic event.
Well done Meds and Kevin for securing us this venue.:)
RM
PS Ripon was a BLAST! Well done to G and Z for showing it was possible to do all 3 races without a swim!
Quote from: Antony (Guest)Simon,
You misunderstood, i know who you post as. I think that you will find that 'student sailor' was probably your son Tom unwilling to identify himself for some reason. I might be wrong..
It is good to see that almost every consituent part of the class has had a chance to express a view already, except of course those sailing at Ripon and Yeadon this weekend who went out in their boats instead of sitting on the computer at home.
Antony
OOOOOOH! Handbags at dawn? Seriously though folks, we could do without the unnecessary backbiting and to loosely translate Ciccero: "otherwise I'll write filthy and lude things about you on the Pub wall"...;)
I won't make BW, not only because I'll soon be out of the class being on the too heavy side but also because BW clashes with the Tasar Europeans in Scotland. I do however think it's a shame that students won't be able to make it because of their impending exams.
Jim.
Jim, is that the pot calling the kettle black?
The impact on the students is unfortunate, however Jeremy is correct, you cannot revise/study effectively all day every day. If you know you're going to be away sailing for 4 days, you have plenty of time to plan your work around it.
Almost all the feedback I've heard on the changes to the Champs is positive. Moving away from the summer holidays will certainly make it possible for us to attend without affecting the family's summer holiday plans. A venue away from the distant south west is a good change as well. We'll be there.
Mark
3472
Well done. This is a bold move that inevitably will not suit everyone. However, there must be every chance that it will attract a lot of people (us included) who cannot or will not give up a full week in August, and for that reason alone it is worth trying. Hope the camping is good......!
Peter C
N3239
Being new to the fleet it will be our first opportunity to attend (we hope to be there). It gets the thumbs up from me because it doesn't mean giving up so much annual leave to an event: and for Mrs P there's still a hope of there being time an money left for a 'normal' holiday. I'm looking forward to the BW micro-site.
If there are concerns over the decline of BW then the c'tee deserve support from the fleet for trying something different. Everybody has plenty of time to plan.
Students have my complete sympathy because it has the potential to be an anxious time. Nonetheless, with advance planning it is possible to turn the half term break and BW to HUGE advantage. Everybody knows frequent and bite-size revision is FAR better than cramming and also that the most successful students factor in time for relaxation. JC, MS and others have already said the same. As a break from conscientious study what more relaxing and absorbing pastime could there be than BW?
Why not begin a thread for students to share helpful info on revision plans and support material?
-Chris
As intended the new format appears to have created lots of interest from owners (like me) who cannot or will not comit a week in august to sailing. Well done for the brave proposal. Looking forward to seeing N3239 again- a boat I built whilst studying for my A levels
Quote from: 242Jim, is that the pot calling the kettle black?
The impact on the students is unfortunate, however Jeremy is correct, you cannot revise/study effectively all day every day. If you know you're going to be away sailing for 4 days, you have plenty of time to plan your work around it.
Almost all the feedback I've heard on the changes to the Champs is positive. Moving away from the summer holidays will certainly make it possible for us to attend without affecting the family's summer holiday plans. A venue away from the distant south west is a good change as well. We'll be there.
Mark
3472
So this is the antidote for the falling numbers at BW eh? Let´s see....
Oh yes, I´ve had my gripes and moans, but nothing really personal. Call the kettle grey if you like Mark, but it´s been a long time since I last cooked on a peat stove!!! Wonder how many real heavyweights are going to make it?
Cheers and happy sailing to all...
Jim.
Jim
There will probably be more heavyweights there than there are real lightweights at a Finn championship! This is not the thread to pursue that old chestnut again but there really is a natural limit to the competitive weight range which results directly from the limited waterline length. I have attended numerous Burton Weeks, have never failed to qualify for the Tubs Trophy (even won it once) with plenty of weight in reserve - even when the limit was a stone heavier. I've had great fun at each one although I've never gone there seriously believing that I can win, and that's never been just a weight issue. Burton Week offers great racing throughout the fleet over a wide weight range and is a brilliant social occassion.
I've no doubt that our committee have given a huge amount of thought and debate to this very significant change in the format. It s impossible to please all all the time. My view for what its worth, is that the event is likely to be the best attended Championhships the Class has seen for many years. I'm sure that the most conciencous students will still be able to find a few days in their revision schedules to enjoy the event even if they perhaps decide to miss one of the days to feel more confident of their results.
Quote from: 47
There really is a natural limit to the competitive weight range which results directly from the limited waterline length. quote]
David, that's why my boat is up for - Archimedes and 12 feet have beaten me. By way, I'm moving her over to Spinnaker in the first week of November, since the market's better in GB for a class that's virtually unknown outside the UK. If anyone is interested in her, please let me know. Sorry for the pump on the BW thread, but it's difficult selling at a distance. :)
Jim (soon) ex. N3470
well now
I do believe this new formatt could bring at lest one boat from the whitehead house hold, two might be pushing it........ It is eary enough not to clash with any SB3 stuff. Talking of SB3's they do the 4 day formatt and it works really well, they get 20 plus boats at events, not bad when you have 4 people to organise! As far as students apply speaking from experance smell what you are speaking! Your telling me you will spend your bank holiday in your room with your books and not in the pub?? Yeah right! I never worked that weekend, though did try! So you only lose one day.......hmmm not that big a lose in my view.
To bring this to a close, a 4 day event does work for the people in full time employment( last time i looked was most of the 12 fleet), as they only lose one day of holiday and not 5. So for the niche, students are because i look through the results and i cant see that many, it may not work but for the masses it does therefore the lesser of two evils...
Jimmy
Soggy Moggie (still in the house)
Quote from: 499As far as students apply speaking from experance smell what you are speaking! Your telling me you will spend your bank holiday in your room with your books and not in the pub??
Jimmy I just love that quote - you have put into a few short words exactly what I was thinking!
Bring on the four day champs at Thorpe Bay - I cannot wait for a long weekend in the sunny Essex. I reckon we could hit 90 boats - students or not.
Jane
Crew 3512 Alpha Male
Ok, just walk the talk, that's all. Students are in a minority here. The demography has shifted to the working class and what class we've got.....
Jane, with a name like your boat's got, looks like you'll be at the front of the fleet, apart from the Cindy Doll colour - Ken would have been a better name .(Just joking, so hit me ;):P). Anyway, happy sailing.
Quote from: 241
Jimmy I just love that quote - you have put into a few short words exactly what I was thinking!
I think it also rammed home for me that maybe Jimmy really should have studied more... Junior Whiteheads spelling hasn't improved much over the years ;D
Not sure the spelling really matters - I understood pretty clearly what he was saying!
Interesting and varied debate just to add as a retired, older and overweight person! I did my last Burton in 1990 but with the new format I hope to be doing my next one in 2009 and I am looking forward to it. Us oldies may even be able to last 4 days and enjoy the sailing and socialising. Guess I will need a compass too as we dont need them very often on Yeadon Tarn.
I will decide which boat to bring after sounding out a few of our vintage fleet pals after all we did get 3 vintage boats out for the Burton Cup this year. Any early takers???
Howard C aka Chadders N2, N2266, N2769 and N3356 8)
I'm Looking forward to Burton week at Thorpe Bay. It's the first time I've got accomodation sorted before the events location is confirmed. I hope lot's of boats turn up to support the class. I understand the reason for a short week and the timing but I hope that we can have a champs after exam time in future years. A four day event would only use up 2 days holiday which is nothing for anyone keen on sailing. My preference is for a week but clearly if more people want a short week then thats democracy for you and I'd rather sail in a larger fleet. To encourage youngsters I suggest that the comittee look at making entry fees even lower for them. If we get them sailing 12s hopefully they will stay in the class and pay a full fee for many years.
Howard, I can stroll down to Thorpe Bay with something between 50 and 70 years old that could float for at leat a circuit.
A sizeable Vintage contingent would be something to aim for and I'll be there with one of my fleet - depending on the weather forecast it might be even be a ribby!
A long weekend makes Burton week much more viable from my perspective and consequently something I will put in the calender and keep an eye on. What with a freshly rejuvenated Water Nymph in 2009 I will even have a working boat too!! Although the last time I sailed there (1988:o) there were seas as big as houses and the thought of sailing a 1960 vintage Mk 9 in them is very sobering - but then I could just stay in the bar!
Overall the new format gets a yes vote from me and may as a consequence get me back in attendance and more importantly sailing...which may ultimately lead to a new boat too.;D
I have attended a number of national events along the same format and it has been a huge success. What will be the timing for races etc? Will we be able to have more than two races a day, due to the number of days being redeced?
I have just bought my first 12 and am really looking forward to my first burton week. I am 23 and I am lucky enough to be working full time, so the thought of only taking a few days off is great! (even more time for sailing!) My helm is at uni but lucky enough not to be doing exams this year.
The format is great and the top priority has to be maintaining a healthy fleet. I am also in the mind that we need to encourage new members to the class, that has to mean attracting young people to a class that is not really known for it's youth fleet.
Greg N3473
[face=verdana,geneva]Ed, I recently sailed my undecked UK in a F5 wind over tide in the Colne Estuary single handed with a reduced size main. Big waves and a fantastic sail and got her up on a plane too. The old brass tube style bailers kept up with the spray and all was well. I admit to retiring due to fatigue but not until two vintage Merlins retired before me. And don't forget it can also be very calm in the Thames sea area!:)[/face]
It's really nice to see such positive comments. I have now got 3 events I would like to do that weekend and with the airshow going on at the same time I'm not sure I will be a very useful crew (too busy looking at the sky and lovely magic flying machines!). It's going to be a tough decision as to which one I end up doing.....
Clare
Looks like Margaret and I will be doing our first Burton wk (4 days) since 1996 when it was Harwich (<10miles from home). Great that we have got away from the "celtic fringe" to a more accessible venue. Hope to see many more Admirals cuppers there. Regarding the students: I heartily agree that this need not prevent them competing if revision is planned ahead. In my A level year (shortly after the Ark got beneaped by the highest ever tide) my parents chartered a yacht for the "whitsun" half term week. I took a few revision items and sometimes stayed aboard when the family went ashore. Got the same mediocre results that my teachers expected and was certainly more relaxed than last minute cramming. ( I do recall the first exam was physics practical and the equipment did seem to sway a bit as I had not quite recovered my shore-legs!)
N3365
Its going to be an imteresting wind shift when the Tornado (the plane not the wind) does its usual low level Mach 1 run up the estuary!! I think Thorpe Bay is just about where he hits full afterburn at approx 100feet!!
You know, when I had a summer job delivering lemonade and ghastly premix shandy to the Lincolnshire resorts of Clreethorpes Sutton on Sea and Mablethorpe I used to stop for my lunch and watch the RAF do their practice bombing runs at Theddlethorpe St Helens. Bloody marvelous. They would sweep in, drop the lumps of cast iron on the target and climb away on twin afterburners. Those things would burn off the old varnish from my fleet from a good deal more than ten paces. At the air shows the big event was always the Lightning scramble 0-40,000 ft in mere seconds. In those days I suppose we could afford the fuel. Too many accountants now. God bless em.