National 12

That's a lot of travelling and 3 sea events will be challenging for the youngsters of OMSC. only one river and 2 inland, both on very large and consistent lakes. Dont forget you have a lot of 13-18 yer lods also wanting to take part. most have not travelled before, and all of these sailors sail 4 plank or AC boats.
to balance it a little more, can I suggest that the OMSC and the Trent valley opens also are included would give another river and a small shifty lake. the 2 events are on the same weekend so would only add one more date to the calendar, and would allow many more boats to qualify.

A word of caution which I'd asked to have included in the posting but seems to have been missed . . . . the main calendar is still not finalised and at least 1 of the meetings listed is still under discussion.  The definitive programme, including agreed youth events, will be published soon but please bear with us as we try to sort out the last few glitches.
 
My view is that 3 out of 6 would be a more realistic qualification criteria.
 
Jennie

Hi
thanks for publishing the dates... but i agree with omsc that perhaps on cud be on our home ground at olton as with probably have the biggest 12 youth fleet around at the momment and our boats are deffinately not suitable for the sea and we have not sailed on the sea before.
Thanks Moonshallow

I think including smaller puddles and rivers would be good, especially since a lot of the bigger venues might be Gill Series events, which has a youth division anyway?

I'm certainly game for some of those. I think that the list of venues has something to offer everyone, some of us have good sea boats which struggle on the rivers! And the spread across the country means that there are some in reach of most people, as travelling to venues always seems to be more of a problem esspecially for those who need taxi-ing. Good effort Sam293, once the calander is finalised i ll certainly be pencilling in some dates, probably the ones further south (being on the south coast largs is a long way!)
 
Tony

Really good job by Sam293. Can I just say sorry for asking what as happening when you had already posted the notice. I am really happy with having some events on the sea and some on inland waters. Though I think the guy at Olton seem to deserve to host a youth event. I would say that this would be a great excuse for the youngters to take to the sea, even as young as 13. Largs for example is one of the best places I have sailed in the UK, I wouldn't call it open sea but it would give someone a good insight into tides, waves and all sort of fun things like that!!!
 
I would also just like to make sure that if I go to one of these events I will not be exempt from the main fleet.
 
This is a really possative encouraging move by the class I hope as many people make the effort with the eries as possible.
 
Greg
N3473  

Prizes will be sorted.  I promise.
Note that neither Salcombe or Harwich are sea.  They are estuaries, the water is salty, but they are closer to being rivers than being the sea.  Looks like a great series to me.
JOhn

OMSC, As already Said there are not 3 true sea events, largs is the only one which i would call sea, At 13 i was out on the sea quite a lot, you have to start somewhere. and  i wouldnt class any of the inland venues as particularly large or consistent wind wise.

and i think tim gatti proved that vintage boats still work well on the sea and the good ammount of ac boats were getting on the circuit proving that they are still very compatative.

My reasons for not chooseing omsc and trent valley are as follows, there are already 2 events that i would class as "up north" and it would involve rigging and de rigging of boats twice in a weekend, which i didnt think would attract lots of people.
The main idea of the series is to attract people from other classes into the n12 as well asencouraging our youth fleet. So iv chosen good sailing venues, rather than smaller ponds that some people wouldnt be so keen to travell too.

Little bo, Sorry for not making that point clear although i did put "subject to confirmation" and ther are three events to qualify.
Yes the gill series does have a youth devision but its not well advertised, and this way you get the chance to race in the bigger fleets of the gill series as well as smaller fleets of local opens.

really glad you are keen on it tony thanks for the great positive feedback, was beginning to get the feeling no one wanted to come. I know largs is a long way away but it is the only one that isnt a reasnaoble distance from the south coast so hopefully see you at the 5 others?

greg yes everyone will race as normal in the national 12 open, just if you enter  as u25, then the results will be picked out from the main fleet results.

John brilliant to hear that we can have some prizes thankyou very much, and thankyou for the very encouraging comments.

Graham Camm has very kindly offered us an opportunity for him to coach us, at the moment i havnt chosen a venue or a date, so any input would be great, i was provisionally thinking the saturday of the burghfield open 27th. There will of course be some cost involved. If your interested please let me know and i will try and arrange this.

Thankyou for all your comments and i hope to see as many of you out on the water at these opens as possible.
any more questions and comments please keep posting, this is a god topic

I think the series looks great.  I like the fact that there are a couple of northern dates which is something i really never expected when i saw the idea.  I will definately be attending those and will try to go down south for some river sailing.  seems a good varied series. well done and thanks for organising it.

Hi
Thanks for the info about "sea events" it has sort of settled me about the idea alot. But still dont think a paper dart that has previously sank is up 2 the job!!! But i was thinking if there is coaching available perhaps we could have this at the mere on a date... i can see the advantage of having it alongside an event, but we are so keen here at olton to do something and have said so a dozen times. It is a very challenging place 2 sail as everyone who has sailed there will back us up on, and looking at the other places it offers something different. It is easily acessable to all being nr birmingham etc. Also we are able to host dates that is not our ordinary 12 open day.  So please may the mere do something, we are keen.
Mere is currently home to 4 youthboats. and hopefully going 2 get more going as "The Pink Team" is trying to convince more youngies that 12's are COOL!!!!:P
Thanks MoonShallow

Sam,
as an ex member of Leigh and lowton, and having sailed at northampton, compared the the Mere, I would say both are amazingly consistent and large, and do offer a very different challenge. I do concede to the estuary sailing on 2 venues though.  all I did was look at multimap.  I have travelled the midlands extensively this year on the enterprise circuit, and all the venues have been smaller than any on your list.
Olton mere will be giving out youth prizes this year in their open meeting, and would very much like to be considered for the circuit. The youth will be travelling whatever, certainly 2 boats. possibly as many as 5, along with at least one adult boat.
I think the general balance is very good which you have attained. the geographical spread is good, the variety is too. I guess we would just love to see the double bottomed boats come to us and race against a fleet of AC's on a water where the AC was designed to sail, and where a china doll has an advantage over a baggy or a crusader.
I certainly was not suggesting any event was unsuitable, just more a couple of smaller venues that still have the capability of handling 20+ boats be included on the programme.
in addition, as moon shallow has stated, you have a club with 10+ individals, all under 21 are falling in love with 12s and wanting to get involved. we have good facilities and a great sence of fun, and can give as good a social as any other small club along with accomodation and a huge welcome. let us be part of the youth resurgence in the fleet, as it was foxi and moonshallow that pushed for this youth series in the beginning.
oh, and I dont thing birmingham can be classed as "northern"!!!
I personally will be supporting the young sailing initiative by attending the events as a grown up although I am a long way from qualifying, encouraging and generally getting embarassed when the beat me.
Kevin

OMSC and members, i do have  a plan for your club and your very kinda offer of your lake for a day, now we have good interest for this and i have enough people interested in the series, i was considering a match racing type event at your club. would you be interested in this?
or a rs style sprint champs?

i think this would bring a new exciteing way of racing 12's into the scene, either way lots of quick short races, improveing  starts and start line tactics and race tactics and rule knowledge. there is always something to be learned whether your stepping into racing for the first time or your a salty veteran.
These kind of event work very well on smaller venues this is why im hopeing your keen on this idea.
i had no intention of leaving you out of the youth scene after all the effort the club goes to i thought it would be nice for you to hold a special event.

An event along those lines would be very welcome. With things how they are at the moment, we can probably enter up to half a dozen boats (but the class is still growing at the club). "Team racing" the 12s would be very interesting, or a day of many short races with training in mind would be exremely beneficial. My aim is to travel as much as possible this year - but a home event would be super.
Thanks

Nice work Sam and congratulations after all the hard work involved in pulling this initiative together.  It's even got my son thinking about helming again - but I'd be much too old to crew for him in a youth series!!
Just a note about some 12's being viewed as 'unseaworthy' ... having been witness to a number of incidents in recent years where buoyancy arrangements have failed either through bags popping out or tanks leaking, I think it's important to recognise that although the Buoyancy Rules have changed in recent years - we are still responsible for making sure our boats are safe.  I wouldn't want to put my boat, myself or my crew at risk through sailing on a river, lake, estuary or the open sea with ineffective buoyancy. It's just tempting fate. Recovering a sinking hull also takes more effort from the rescue or safety crews.  I'd hope that any boat sailed in the Youth Series, or any other N12 event for that matter, complied with our basic safety rules - whatever its vintage.  It would only take one serious incident to get the Class a bad press and potentially undo all the recent hard work that's gone into trying to build its popularity. Tim.

thanks tim, really glad your son is interested, yes i forgot to mention all boats should be safe and carry a valid measurement and buoyancy certificate. if boats look un safe the race comittie can refuse you the rite to race.
thanks for pointing that out tim very good point that i should of though of. yes we certaintly dont want any sinking boats

Hi, thanks for that looking forward to it all. and i asure u my boat will not sink anymore! It is having the rodger angell treatment! it was certainly a learning experience having 2 sail a sinking boat across a lake as a begginer with an even more novice crew and a safety officer who cudnt drive the boat and crashed into us then left us sinking... it is something that is not 2 be repeated. But keeping my eyes open for anything going around for the youth opens as i dont think i will be a confident enough helm by these events so if u need a crazy crew then let me know. But going to get in training anyway now Pink Team has a coach!!
Thanks MoonShallow

Well done to Sam and all concerned for their efforts in putting this well received initiative together.:)

I just wanted to pick up an aside that has cropped up in the thread and that is the topic of 'Match Racing'.
To make clear the distinction 'Team Racing' is generally two teams of three boats each sailing a mini series of races (say three) against each other. 'Match Racing' on the other hand is one boat against another and in dinghies this might be of short duration over a very compact course.
Only a couple of weeks ago (Nov 22nd) Etherow Country Park Sailing Club hosted an event billed, somewhat tongue-in-cheek perhaps, as the Enterprise Match Racing World Championships. This agent had reason to be close to Marple on that day and took a minor detour for some reconnoisance. Time was tight so I didn't actually engage any organisers or participants in conversation. I didn't attract too much attention and I sure they didn't supect me of spying for the 12s.
Etherow 'A' placed forth overall at the 24hr and were first Ent home. One of their members, Tony Woods, is current Ent Masters Champ.
Anyway, the Match Racing event appeared to be a success and well attended. I'd say there were a number of visitors, some from as far afield as Glossop for sure, and in total thay seemed to have more than twenty teams. It looks like the six boats provided were local to the club.  I can't report who was there because  there'd been some sort of ballot for placement in the rounds and teams were listed on the progress chart by their psuedonyms (ie. Argentina, Italy, Croatia .......)
Start sequence was 2-1-Go! and with six boats they could start three flights of two in very quick succession. Very short custom course with windward, reach, downwind, and windward to finish. (Being Compstall water sometimes all those on one leg!) Over in ten minutes, quick changeover and off again. It all looked good fun run along the lines of World Cup qualifying rounds followed by knockout stages to the final. But for the fact that crew knew just how cold had been forecast we might have enlisted.

This seems a great format to broker relations with other clubs and classses in the region, local unis, potential new youth/ new blood etc. Such an event might appeal to your target age range but need not be exclusive to the 'yoof'

Best potentail venues are those where a satisfactory short course can be set close to launch and one with jetties aids quick changeovers.

Yes it is to me MATCH racing not team racing, Good idea on making it open to everyone, so yes MATCH RACING FOR ALL N12 SAILORS WHATEVER YOUR AGE. The enterprise match racing worlds is what sparked my idea. although haveing not match raced for well over a year i fear i will be rusty

Over a year!!! i have never heard of it before... i have heard of team racing. But not match racing. Does this mean the Pink Team cant sail as a team?? someone is going 2 hav 2 explain in terms tht i will understand (suitable for blondes)

heres a basic idea of what it is
Match race sailing is easy to follow. A match race consists of two  boats racing against each other. With effective boat handling
and prudent use of wind and currents, a trailing boat can escape the
grasp of the leader and pass. The leader uses blocking techniques to
hold the other boat back. This one-on-one duel is a game of strategy
and tactics. There is only one winner.
thankyou isaf sight for that one
i will explain more when i have half hour or so spare to draw up a NOR

thanks 4 tht
and tht is enough info for me at the momment thaxs, to much 2 soon confuses me lol
 

I wasnt saying that team racing = match racing. I just thought team racing would be interesting to do.....

In the 1950's and sixties the Nat 12s did have a team racing event. There was certainly one at Minima and one at Pitsford in that time.

Backing up what Tim said, I remember when the Burton was last held at Scarborough and I was on one of the rescue boats that had been brought down from Tynemouth. Someone who had a Warlock (early GRP boat) had been hit and had cracked their foredeck and then capsized. When we got to them they were completely awash even with the foam buoyancy that was needed to be built in as well as the tanks. Without being rescued and then pulled back home this couple would have been in dire straights indeed. On the bright side, by the time we got half way back the boat was able to be sailed back under its own steam so to speak.

Quote]-

"This seems a great format to broker relations with other clubs and classses in the region, local unis, potential new youth/ new blood etc. Such an event might appeal to your target age range but need not be exclusive to the 'yoof'"
Well done Sam.........:)
Subject to how event is organised those taking part in 'heats' can get to do lots of short races, starts, and close tactics so a Match Race event is a gr8 way to hone those skills. It's the sort of thing that has the potential to piggy-back well with a training event. (imoa)
If the objective is also to catch the interest of 'none 12 peeps' then they might appreciate some time for casual familiarisation?

Just to let you all know, we are trying to arrange some coaching at OMSC if we can find a suitable date. Watch this space as we may miss the print date for the fixtures list. 

Good work Sam on getting the enthusiasm going at the junior end of the fleet - the whole class is very keen to see more juniors on the water.  

Graham & Zoe

I havn't seen a finalised fixture list for OMSC yet but most saturdays will be free. I'm hoping to get hold of the list very soon.

Hi Foxi,
Team racing is great fun and I miss my time at uni where I made the team. Being at Bradford, hosting the highly sociable 'Bradford Barrel' was memorable. My year at the BUSA Team Champs hosted by Manchester at Leigh and Lowton was dire:- it was the coldest I have ever been and my crew was significantly hyper!
Boats that lend themselves to Team Racing tend to be fairly rigid OD or RD such as Firefly, Enterprise, or Lark so crews can use a consistent layout as they have to switch between alloted boatss. Generally Uni SCs who participate in their regional league keep a fleet of at least six (plus spare) tubs all of a similar age so in the interest of fairness hulls and rigs are equally new or ragged.  Single handers such as Laser/Solo can be used but two man/two sail is arguably the definative form. Crew can be a very important tactician in something which is often called 'chess on the water'

Probably the most prestigious event for Team Racing is the Wilson Trophy, an historic event hosted by West Kirby YC on a marine lake near Liverpool.
http://www.wksc.net/wilsontrophy/index.asp
The 2009 event takes place at the beginning of May and they're taking entries. I don't know much about it but it seems Teams generally enter with the backing of their club (like WLYC 24hr). So far as I might guess there should not be anything to bar a class association from sponsoring a team. Event is over three days and costs £450 per team. WKSC provide Fireflys.
If there is adeqaute interest it might win the backing of the C'tee.

Birmingham Uni sail at Bartley SC and appear to host an event called the 'Brummie Bender' for Uni teams in November. Not too far from you and may be worth a look.

Hi. I'm a member of birmingham uni sailing team and I was at the bender. Was great fun. Was thinking of using team racing as a training exercise similar to the match racing, but going to an event might be fun too.

Wow Foxi, you're not short on options  If you were inclined to put a team together for the Wilson !  ...Options of possible backing from OMSC, BUSC and 12s?
 
On the other hand May is a bad time in the acedemic year.
OMSC would be a terrific location for a training event.

Ye May isnt great. I'm a medical student and the 4 weeks of exams don't look nice! I'll certainly look into it tho.

I have sailed at the Wilson and teams don't strictly speaking need to be affiliated with a club. There are Firefly class association teams as well as the best BUSA helms in a team. If the twelves were thinking of hosting a team racing event it might be sensible to host it at the most prestigous team racing club int the country where there is also a substantial 12 fleet and that is Spinnaker. Half the club are team racers or umpires and Phil and Simon are doing wonders with the 12 fleet. Why not try a a saturday of random pairs team racing,  so there's no effort in getting a team of three together and then have the open on the sunday, this is how the firefly's do it at spinnaker.

Match report......
Link......           http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=144327

Sounds like a good idea. If any young people want to sail in the series but don't have a boat, I am more than happy to lend mine (3445), as I only usually sail on a Thursday. The only catch is that you would have to be able to collect it and deliver it back to Nottingham. Just reply to this blog.

hi, that is a fantasticly kinda offer, i would really appreciate it if i could take you up on that offer for at least some of them i will send you an email,
thanks again
sam

Hi. I'd like to point out a discrepency and get it cleared up. I'm planning my travelling with 3412 and the events page says it's 4 youth events to count, and the beginning of this thread says 3....

yeah it is three, the details and events i posted are correct, the details in the calender are incorrect, if anyone interested could please send me an email on sam.childs@btinternet.com i will be sending out full info within the next week or two, and also keep an eye of the facebook i will be putting events on there
im very sorry for the problems with the calender

The calendar is only as good as the information supplied for it . . . .
 
RM