Morning all
Do I remember some talk a while back about P&B - Winder looking into an official T foil conversion for their Foolish's
Did this get done, is there a price.... or better still a parts list and procedure for home completion?
Cheers
Ian
Ian,
I was up at P&B on saturday for a committee meeting and have a couple of photos of the first P&B foolish Toil conversion.. Its not quite finished but its going to be a very neat system...
see below:
More info will be coming from P&B I believe when first conversion is complete..
Looks good
So their modifying a pink Foolish first then... I've not yet attended an open meeting and yet even I can make a stab at who's boat that must be!
Ian
Will we be renaming converted ones 'Foilish'es...
So how much will this cost?? Sorry so sound so vulgar!!
I am assuming that the pink one will actually be free as it is generating so much publicity for P&B and it is the one they are learning on :)
Is there any plan to retrofit a centerboard as well Jane, so that we can all find out once and for all if the DCB was the step forward it seams or just a well sorted boat with the must have gadget of the moment fitted to it.
That said I guess if its faster with just the rudder then i guess we'll know!
Ian
No plans on the centre board but the other pink one also has a conventional centre board so we are comparing like for like. Not yet sure when the boat will emerge from P&B so don't know when any conclusive evidence will be available.
O thats interesting Jane... so how many of the DCB's have the trim tab board. I just thought everyone had them although personnaly it seems like one extra peice of complexity I could live with out.
Ian
I know that Tom, Jonno & Char don't have the trim tab, Graham & Zoe do, not sure about the others...
...and as far as complexity goes I entirely agree.
Tom has a trim tab, and a new system which I am having retrofitted at the moment. Did him ok at the inlands. I do and so does Steve and Graham. The two non P&B boats both have them.
Graham has a novel control system. Mine was like jo's but it has damaged the trailing edge a lot, and so am going for the new system Tom has.
One thing, it makes it feel like you tack through soup in the light winds. if its turned on.
Andy
I don't think Tom had one in Weymouth although he may have one now.
I have the trim tab centreboard and I would agree with Andy on the damage and the light airs issue. In the right conditions (medium wind strengths) I feel it does give a bit of a benefit.
Getting the board down at the leeward mark is an issue with the system I have, so I was considering making some changes. I wasn't aware that Tom had fitted a different system to his. Maybe Andy or Tom could enlighten me about the details.
Steve
N3531
Not sure if I heard correctly, but I believe I was told a while ago that Graham has a smaller T Foil for use on puddles/rivers where frequent tacking is the norm and which has proved quite successful. Is this the case and if so is there any likelihood of such a system becoming commercially available?
Steve
Toms system has the rope held in the slot, so it cant come out, then a control to tension up the system, so the jibsheets then work as ours do. The system allows the board to kick up about 1/3 if you run aground. You dont have the leeward mark issue, as the rope is always in the control slot on the board. It appeared very simple, and well sorted when I looked. Mine is currently in for repair of the trailing edge, and conversion to the new system. I will take some pics when the boat is back.
Andy
Quote from: Steve (Guest)I have the trim tab centreboard and I would agree with Andy on the damage and the light airs issue. In the right conditions (medium wind strengths) I feel it does give a bit of a benefit.
Getting the board down at the leeward mark is an issue with the system I have, so I was considering making some changes. I wasn't aware that Tom had fitted a different system to his. Maybe Andy or Tom could enlighten me about the details.
Steve
N3531
Hi Steve
So if its only really of benefit in medium winds do you find it a hindrance at other times or just no different?
Ian
Trust me...I have raced against Steve at our club, and he can make his dcb go in all conditions.
I normally need binoculars to see his transom!!! :(
Ian,
The centreboard has a cap that can be put over the top, which locks the trim tab in line with the rest of the centreboard. In that mode the only difference to a normal centreboard is that the join between the trim tab and the centreboard is not absolutely smooth as it is with a single piece centreboard. The problem I find in light airs is spotting the transition and knowing when to lock it/unlock it. when it gets to about force 5 or more I don't think it makes much difference and we usually leave it locked and concentrate on other things like keeping the boat upright.
Steve
N3531
Andy,
Thanks, some pictures would be handy when you get the boat back. I was thinking of 2 possibilities. One sounds simila,r which was to combine the trim tab ropes with a downhaul control line and the other was to add some "wings" to the top of the trim tab and permanently attaching the control lines to the trim tab wing ends then running the line straight to the forward turning blocks. The line would automatically tension when the board was fully down. One problem would be that the jib sheet tension would tend to pull the centreboard up. Maybe a downhaul rope is required for that as well.
Steve
N3531
Steve,
I thought through loads of options before making the system for the Very Hungry Caterpillar. My main aim was to have a system that was good around the cans for pond \\ river racing so it just needed to look after itself.
We have some "ears" on the head of the centre board with tiny pulleys at the trailing edge. There are trim tab control lines that attach to the trailing edge, go around the pulley and up to another pulley at the foot of the mast then cross over and onto the helms toe strap on the other side.
There is then a cheeky spring bar which encourages the trim tab to stay on the side you left it, handy if you have to stop hiking.
The final piece is a cunning clip to lock the trim tab in the centre when the board is raised. The clip has elastic attached so when you raise the board the clip in engages and centres the trim tab.
It took a bit of tuning to get the forces and friction right but seems to work pretty well now.
I guess pictures might help, alternatively you're welcome to have a nose around
Happy sailing
Graham
Graham,
Pictures woud be great if you could post some as I'm struggling to visualise the details from the description. Having an automatic system that just operates with putting the plate down is the aim.
Regards,
Steve
Steve,
Here's a picture of the assembly. There are control ropes travelling up inside the black "ears" which turn around small pulleys and attach into the trim tab (you can just see the pin and split rings that secure the pulleys). The other end of the control ropes turn around a pulley attached to the mast foot then go back to the helm's toe straps.
When the board is raised the semi-circular clip engages as the top pulls against an elastic loop attached at the base of the thwart and located into the groove in the clip.
I'm not sure if it makes sense from the photo.
Graham
Steve
Just go my boat back, most of the rope is under the kick bars.
Best have a look at either mine or toms
Andy
Graham,
Thanks for the picture at least I can see it now. I don't claim to fully understand it yet, but as Andy says probably best to have a look at the alternative arrangements first.
Regards,
Steve