For club sailing, is it worth replacing an ally boom / masts with carbon? Not forgetting the jib stick?
The carbon boom helps in breezy gybes, firstly it has less momentum and secondly it hurts less if it hits your head!
If you take the actual cost out of the equation then I'd say yes on all counts... they are just nicer to live with and as Jane says a carbon boom is much kinda on the head.
But once you factor in cost... well I guess it depends on how much the boat is worth and on how much you value your class racing. But to get the best out of them you will also want to include the cost of a new set of sails and possibly an over haul of the rig controls.
Not cheap!
Ian
The boom and jibstick also good for light wind performance.
Thanks, any recommendations on where to get mast/boom/stick from?
Also, I presume if I have a new main for an ally mast that it wont really work on a carbon mast, but would be ok for a carbon boom?
How about a recommendation for who to get a new mainsail from?
The boom won't make any difference to the mainsail but the mast will. You may be able to find a second hand boom - try the Buy & Sell link. Sails - try P&B they serve the class well, I am married to one of them so slightly biased. We sail with P&Bs and on the whole they have served us well. P&B would also be able to supply the required carbon bits as well but Terry at Aardspars is also worth a call.
i've PM'ed you John, as I still have a brand new white Aardvark racing N12 carbon boom sitting in my garage (a long story)
To your first question, yes.
A small diameter carbon mast for the same stiffnes as an alloy mast is aprox 3 times stronger and lower windage. A carbon boom is half the weight of an alloy one and there for better for every reason.
Angell Mast and Boom unfitted aprox £1200 but depends on final spec.
If you would like more info please call me on 07527405950.
Roger has made many 12 masts over the years and they have proved to be very reliable and have won last years burton week and moth, int 14, int canoe worlds, nationals, etc..
Hi Jon, welcome back.
hIt depends how seriously you want to take your club sailing. To an older boat an upgraded rig may not add a lot of value despite improving performance as Tom outlines. However if you choose to upgrade to a newer boat it is quite possible to return an older boat to its original rig and take the carbon rig to another boat although this is not seen as often as maybe it is logical to do.
Mast suppliers
Superspar, Selden, Aardvark and Angell are all at the front of the fleet currently
Sailmakers
P&B are clearly proven and very active in the Class. Speeds have recently purchased the proven Alverbank patterns - but I have yet to see a suit. There is no reason why they cannot either produce them reliably or develop them further. North have also been seen at the front of the fleet in the last few years with a Burton Cup win included.
Sails built for an ally mast wont be quite right as the carbon spar does behave differently.
The jib stick and boom are no brainers in my view as they are not part of the measured weight of the boat. You therefore want the most lightweight kit that is up for the job. The second bonus of the boom in light winds is that there is less weight pulling down the leech so your main sets better. The third bonus of the boom is as said before gybing in heavy air. The final bonus is that if you bang your head it is almost a pleasure.
Hope it helps,
John
Jon,
What is above is all pretty solid advice in my view.
Sails from a carbon mast are ok on a metal mast, i would not suggest putting sails from a metal mast on a carbon rig. If you have new sails for the metal mast then use them until they are worn out.
I currently have a Design 8 with a carbon boom and jibstick. I have not bothered to put a spare carbon mast I have on the boat as it would require some carbon work to make it long enough, the difference between the D8 hog and the Foolish double-bottom. For the effort/cost i cannot be bothered, despite the fact that both the suits of sails I have are also from the Foolish and so built for the carbon mast not a Kappa.
Antony
p.s Buy a D8, more sailing less painting....
thanks for all the advice, I have just managed to get myself a carbon boom (aardvark). Hope to have secured a boat this evening...watch this space.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Thanks to TNT the second hand Aardvark boom I had bought from Phil Cosson has been lost. (Keep your eyes open on Ebay for a white carbon boom).
Does anyone have a "spare" carbon boom they would be interested in selling? If not, I will have to look at ordering a new one next month.
I have the bits to make up a budget carbon boom - old mast section, carbon goose neck (made for me by Aardvark) and the fittings - just havent had time to make it all up - anyone, make me an offer 8) (for the boom bits!) Paul 07710 324 800 :K)
Just for interest for those who are thinking of sending stuff using a parcel service.
I recently sent two items, some speaker stands to portugal and the aardvark technologies boom to Jon. These both went via the parcel broker 'interparcel' as they were by far the cheapest option.
The outcome was that both parcels were lost. The speaker stands did eventually surface and have been delivered but over one month late and after both I and the consignee constantly contacted interparcel on their premium rate customer care number. The boom was declared lost pretty quickly. I'm now trying to claim the value back.
The common denominator, besides interparcel, was that both items were delivered but the customer was not in, so they got 'returned to depot'. It seems this is where both DHL and TNT just throw the parcel into a 'black hole'.
I too would be interested if anyone sees the boom - it is unlikely to come up as an N12 item as it has no identifying features - it does have the aardvark sticker on it though - so they might be contacted at some point. It was in a robust triangular cross section cardboard box.
Does anyone have any good experience to report about parcel companies? I will have more large items to courier in the future.
Phil
Never had problems with Fed Ex losing things, unless it's going overseas in which case all hell breaks loose. Occasionally things go elsewhere but they eventually to get where they're supposed to!
UPS are by far and away the highest recommended, but you pay more...
I've been underwhelmed by every single one of them at some time or another.
carbon mast available....
easy postage!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGL1u451s08
contact: oooohthatmusthavehurtthewallet@gonnacostme.com !!
Brilliant Jeremy, some of the best footage ever. Would also like to see it at normal speed.
I'll post it at normal speed soon, just waiting for some better video editing software to arrive as the loss of quality is huge compared to the original. Have rather alot of scary footage from sunday!
I notice your main sheet was running under the rubbing strake on the stbd qtr - I wonder if that contributed in part?
Pretty dramatic stuff - look fwd to seeing it at normal (break(goose)neck) speed!
Tim
This is a good way of illustrating what can happen when you start going down the mine, and as everyone else has said, pretty dramatic breakage and how much quicker 12s are than Enterbarges.
Mast repair?? I have a China Doll that would love to have a carbon boom if you want to sell whats left of your mast Jeremy! Howard PS sorry if that sounds very opportunistic.
Breakage ... what happens when an old shroud gives way... check the condition of your shrouds
Sorry, I have a Final Chapter which is also looking forward to a carbon boom.
Jeremy
That video is quite brilliant and that you had the presence of mind to smile to the camera afterwards ... hats off!
Mike D
N3533
Great bit of footage, it is amazing what lengths people will go to to get a decent bit of u tube footage., I am just interested in what the enterprise sailor said as he sailed by: could it be 'A cool way to depower' or perhaps the more subtle 'See you in the bar LoooZZer'.8)
Not sure I was smiling at the camera... more at Anne in her ent as she sailed past us again! On the mainsheet issue, I agreed it was really not good to have it hooked over the transom, but there was little we could do about it at the time!
I have lovely footage of our tripple nose dive, just before our gybing capsize at the previous mark, Once we got the boat up again, I was so determined to catch up Anne in her Ent, that I set off pretty quickly and didn't even notice until we were halfway down the reach that the main sheet was hooked over the transom, thought the extra resistance in it was because it was a bit windy!
full speed vid, with new software.. not full HD as file size quite big, but let me know your comments on quality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihTedJ9eqfw
Jeremy, in an earlier life you must have been either a showman or a masochist. Marvellous footage, designed to either terrify or inspire, depending on your point of view. Congratulations. Nigel. N3535.
Just bought a new guitar, the company I bought from only deliver Monday to Thuresday. They claim, the weekend parcel staff nick the goods.
When I worked for kodak as a photographer we stopped using Special Delivery and changed to Recorded Delivery for the same reason.(http://www.national12.org/blahdocs/Smilies/cool.png)
finally got the compensation money from interparcel today