National 12

General Boards => General National 12 chat => Topic started by: Chris Day on 08 Jul 2012, 09:21

Title: European Event
Post by: Chris Day on 08 Jul 2012, 09:21
Hi everyone, 

The NTOA has been approached about a potential open meeting in Europe to be held jointly with other classes. Carnac in France in May 2014 was suggested as a possible venue.An overseas event has been talked about before and I think this would be something we'd be keen to do.

Please could you reply to this post if you would consider attending so we can gauge interest.

To give you an idea, here is some of the details I've been given:
- Entry is likely to be around â,¬150 for a 4 day event including a dinner - extra socials can be negotiated.
- Should only require 1 or 2 days holiday depending on where people were based.
- For those that haven't been it's a really nice club with lots of space, sheltered launching into the harbour, good sailing area and a nice tourist town with loads for shore party and good wining / dining options. It's also only 7 hours from Calais, 4 1/2 from Le Havre or 2 hours from Brest so relatively easy to get to.

This all sounds good to me, so let me know what you think. (N.B. following the discussion at the AGM we're looking at running Burton Weekend 2014 in August anyway, so there wouldn't be a clash).

Cheers,

Chris

  
 
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Biniou on 09 Jul 2012, 10:03
Hi Chris!
That's a great idea! I am ready about.
Cheers,

JML
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: beachedblastit on 09 Jul 2012, 09:58
Yes! Yes! And yes again. Marvellous idea. Invite the Greek N12 guys and girls and any other Eurropean N12'ers. Have a European Champs?. Have it in Greece? Sorry got carried away, but it's a thought.
Nigel (2134 & 2901)
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Kevin on 09 Jul 2012, 10:02
Yes.
Kevin
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: clarksimon on 10 Jul 2012, 12:15
why wait next year please 
SIMON N3413 N3375
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Biniou on 10 Jul 2012, 06:58
When National 12 will come for the European event of may 2014 in Carnac, why dont they come before, or after, for a regatta in the BNO? They could also leave their boat there and visit Paris.8)
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Biniou on 10 Jul 2012, 10:50
The reason to wait one year is just to let me time to become the best (today it is not the case)!8)

...and to cut my 2 meters wings to 1,50 m.
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Alex D on 10 Jul 2012, 11:49
That sounds like a great idea.
Is my understanding of the RCD requirements for customs and travel correct. i.e. less than 2.5m boat length is exempt.
What documents would be needed?

http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/regssafety/Pages/recreationalcraftdirective.aspx
... also a european spec trailer would be needed.
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Red Hot Pudding on 10 Jul 2012, 01:46
I'd certainly be interested.
Ian
3316
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: tom lee on 10 Jul 2012, 07:14
Could be interested. 
Alex, racing boats are exempt from the recreational craft directive. Never heard of needing a different trailer for the continent
Tom
N12 3268
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Guest (Guest) on 11 Jul 2012, 09:13
Ref. RCD, boats intended for racing are exempt.  The RYA supply appropriate stickers.  Whether the French take any notice is unknown.  RCD is same in UK as in EEA (Europe).  Trailers might be a different issue, and don't forget your triangle, ref;ective waiscoat, spare bulbs and a breathalyser!
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Alex D on 11 Jul 2012, 12:49
I asked the RCD question to clarify what we needed to do to show we are exempt. I know the Musto Skiffs have a type approval document, user manual and CE marks to point at to make travel less painful. Stickers sound good.

It would be goog to clear up any trailer issus with the lighting and reflector requirements. Fore newer trailers some type approval changes are being phased in over the next couple of years. I'm sure someone will have a checklist. I ask because I don't know :)
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Biniou on 12 Jul 2012, 12:57
Ask also trailers builders (WestMersea is well known out of UK).
Let's think to Quiberon's bay: Not too big waves, not too many streams, soft sun and nice breezes . Famous place: one sea-health centre in Quiberon, one sea-health centre in Carnac, another in Le Crouesty.8)
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Chris Day on 28 Aug 2012, 09:16
A web page has been setup with some more info on the potential European event at Carnac. You can also register your interest on the site...

http://www.paladin-systems.co.uk/carnac/carnac.htm
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tom J (Guest) on 13 Feb 2013, 11:36
There is now a facebook event page set up to save me posting updates in multiple places until a website for the event has been finished, and of course to help spread the word:

http://www.facebook.com/events/247763682025794/
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tom J (Guest) on 27 Aug 2013, 02:06
Entry is now open...<br style="font-size: 10px; color: #222222; font-family: Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; background-color: #e9e9e9;" /><br style="font-size: 10px; color: #222222; font-family: Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; background-color: #e9e9e9;" />http://carnac2014.org/?page_id=29<br style="font-size: 10px; color: #222222; font-family: Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; background-color: #e9e9e9;" /><br style="font-size: 10px; color: #222222; font-family: Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; background-color: #e9e9e9;" />Please can you enter now if you know you are coming and everyone who has paid their £20 by 31st Dec will get free event t-shirts.<br style="font-size: 10px; color: #222222; font-family: Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; background-color: #e9e9e9;" /><br style="font-size: 10px; color: #222222; font-family: Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; background-color: #e9e9e9;" />Thanks,<br style="font-size: 10px; color: #222222; font-family: Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; background-color: #e9e9e9;" />Tom
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: John m on 27 Aug 2013, 10:09
We have entered...
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Biniou on 28 Aug 2013, 09:23
We did too!8)
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tom J (Guest) on 28 Aug 2013, 12:16
I will try and post without all the code this time. There is a list of current entries available at http://carnac2014.org/?page_id=159 (http://carnac2014.org/?page_id=159)
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Neal on 29 Aug 2013, 09:40
Indecision now entered
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: John m on 01 Sep 2013, 08:47
Bruce Johnson and Nigel Waller have declared they are coming.  Bruce intending to bring all his family...  We know they wont enter early - who else is coming?
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tom J (Guest) on 10 Sep 2013, 09:38
Just 1 quick note on the last reply. There will be an entry cut off before the event, purely because if we don't have people's £20 in advance of the event then we won't have time to spend the money on socials, prizes etc. There's still plenty of time but just wanted to make sure people were aware of this and please can you let any of the known late enters know too.

P.S. If any details are still tbc then perfectly happy for that to go on the entry form and then any changes can be made when they are known.
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Chris Day on 16 Sep 2013, 09:33
We've just signed up. 5 N12s so far. 5 Ents, 5 Larks and 4 Merlins...this is starting to get competitive and we've got a bit of catching up to do with the Scorpions!
 
http://carnac2014.org (http://carnac2014.org)
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tim Gatti on 16 Sep 2013, 11:51
Has anyone any idea if there are camping facilities at the Club - or will we have to rely on any local commercial sites?
Tim
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: John m on 18 Sep 2013, 08:28
Tim
check the blog on the carnac2014.org webpage.  "Discounted camping available near the club"
 
John
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tom J (Guest) on 03 Oct 2013, 02:04
For those people looking into ferries can I recommend holding fire for a few days... we're currently in talks that will get people a small discount and we should have more details in the next few days. Keep an eye on the event homepage or facebook for more updates.

There is already info on discounted camping on the website or you can find links to other accommodation options.

For anyone who hasn't, please enter now - http://carnac2014.org/?page_id=157 (http://carnac2014.org/?page_id=157)
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Kevin on 06 Dec 2013, 01:23
Entered!
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tom J (Guest) on 26 Dec 2013, 04:59
Hi, first of all happy xmas! Without wanting to tear you away from leftover turkey or a good family domestic for too long this is just a quick plea for you to enter Carnac if you are planning on coming. It takes 5 minutes, the link is here:
http://carnac2014.org/?page_id=157 (http://carnac2014.org/?page_id=157)
and you'll get a free t-shirt each if you do it and pay the £20 deposit before 1st January. If some details are still tbc then that is fine, they can be filled in later. I know this may seem early but:
1 - I need to write the SI's which will include working out how best to manage the fleets to keep them apart (easier if I know how many of each we're likely dealing with)
2 - We need to buy prizes and without knowing fleet sizes or potential additional prize categories we could end up wasting money
3 - I can't work out the social budget without a decent idea of how much money we will have available
4 - the more boats signed up early the more appealing the event is to those who are currently undecided leading to both better racing and better socials for you
All the details you need are online at www.carnac2014.org (http://www.carnac2014.org) including information on discounted ferries, cheap camping and who the other 69 boats that have already entered are.
And finally, the classes have not been asked to put any money into the event and I don't intend to pay for it my self so we really need the £20 deposits for everything like prizes, socials, t-shirts etc that needs to be paid for in advance. If you can't commit now then not to worry but for those who can it would be a massive help if you could take 2 minutes to get your entry in. If everyone leaves it to the last minute then we'll get to the event, i'll have a wad of cash from all the late entries and there won't be any time to spend it on the actual event... actually, that sounds brilliant but it won't be so great for everyone else.
Thanks,
Tom
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Biniou on 17 Mar 2014, 11:43
See:
http://www.bnovoile.com
 
8)
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Crusader 3244 on 20 Mar 2014, 12:42
Blimey!
A scan of the fixtures list had us thinking about a return to the fold and Pevensey in August ... not a big step I know, but a big one for us since Thorpe Bay 2009 was our last event!
And now anticipation has got the better of us we see Carnac, the entry list, and recall all the fun we've been missing.
It's too soon for us to commit to Carnac but were certainly interested. Bens college work is the main consideration. As yet he doesn't know if the bulk of his coursework assemments will have been completed by then. Just about the same time last year he had a very heavy workload. 
 
Chris and Ben. 'Why Can't You?'
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Chadders on 20 Mar 2014, 08:45
Come on Chris you know you want to, just get that boat out and come out to play again!8)
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tom J (Guest) on 13 Feb 2014, 02:03
I'm just about to start writing the SIs for Carnac and have a puzzle that needs solving... we expect to have approximately 30 merlins, 25 scorpions, 20 ents, 15 larks and 10 12s at the event and at present there is 1 race course.

We are currently looking at a few ways round this but worst case situation is that we all have to share the course. Fortunately there is lots of space to play with but the issue is how best to do this? The simple option is to stick to triangle / sausage, set the fastest boats off first and hope everyone plays nicely... but it may not be the best option.

So... have people any preferences on what courses we sail or ideas on good way to stop the fleets interfering with each other? There is a blank canvas to work with at the moment so all ideas welcome. Different fleets can do different courses too but please remember the more marks there are the longer it will take to rearrange if the wind changes and the less popular we will be with the safety crews...

And if no one has any suggestions I'll just pick an option and no one gets to grumble about it if it doesn't suit them!

Cheers,
Tom
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: John M (Guest) on 15 Feb 2014, 08:18
Hi Tom,
The problem that you have to deal with is that ignoring the separation within the fleets there are faster boats (Merlins) and slower boates (Enterprises) on the same race course.
The sensible thing to do is to start the faster boats first.  But they dont want to wait ages for the Enterprises to finish, and having gone a long way it is not much fun if the Ents get a short race.
We have a joint open with Larks and Fireflies at Harwich each year.
We start in PY order.
The typical course is a trapezium with a sausage on the "outer loop".
The clever bit is that the faster boats then have a broad leg to a leeward mark, but the slower boats have a tighter reach to a leeward mark thus giving them a shorter beat.
I would suggest


The only congestion issue is the windward mark of the outer loop when boats reaching meet boats coming down the reach.  Larks and 12s who have been to Harwich have already worked it out...
There is less of the issue at the leeward end of the outer loop when some boats are returning upwind but others continue to reach downwind.  However coming into the mark everyone can talk to each other and get themselves in the right place.
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tom J (Guest) on 18 Feb 2014, 02:19
Cheers for all the ideas. At the moment the most popular suggestions are either a P course or some derivation of an outer loop trapezoid with everyone racing together in the afternoon. My concern over the P course is simply the potential for collisions especially with the bottle neck a gate would create so based on what a few people have said I'm thinking of the following if possible:

- a trapezopid shaped course, mark 2 at ~90 degrees to mark 1 and mark 3 at roughly 45 degrees to both marks 1 and 4.
- mark 3 is a gate
- set off at 3 minute intervals in the following order: Merlin, Scorpion, N12, Lark, Enterprise
- Merlins, Scorpions and Larks to sail 1,3,4,1,4,1,3, finish (to leeward of start area)
- Ents and 12s to sail 1,2,3,2,3,4,1, finish (to leeward of start area)
- the RO can still shorten any fleet at any point but we will also add in that not all boats from the same class need to complete the same number of laps and positions can be awarded to backmarkers at the RO's discretion to enable them to sail back to the finish area directly.

Can anyone see any potential issues / collision zones / improvements?? I realise that the 12s and Larks may arrive at mark 3 at similar times but I hope the combination of a gate and common sense should prevail... or is that optimistic?!
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: grazz on 19 Feb 2014, 08:35
Entered, ferry booked, campsite booked, see you there!
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Crusader 3244 on 23 Feb 2014, 12:28
Entry is Eu 200, there's plenty of camping, roughly what is cost of ferry crossing with Mondeo & trailer?
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: angus on 23 Feb 2014, 09:43
Hey Chris come to Crammond, It might cost you a bit to brib the border guards but not Eu 200 and they will probably pay you to leave. I need a bit of competition at the back here and Ed is laying up a supply of Buckfast for the Apre sail.
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Crusader 3244 on 24 Feb 2014, 01:35
Entry, fuel, crossing, camping and food may require a budget of @ £700 - and that's excluding cost of bier pour apres voile.
Hey Angus, thanks for the steer!
Annandale, Crammond & Castle Semple are in striking distance. and while Solway clashes with Pevensey the big guns may be doing battle on the south coast.
Could I sail to my usual standards (badly) yet maybe retrun a half-decent result for the series. .... Hmmmm. 
When is Loch doodah?
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tom J (Guest) on 24 Feb 2014, 01:46
A quick indication on costs:

- ferries are ~£100 - £800 depending on route and times. Assuming you take a double trailer and 4 people it works out at about £100 - £250 each including fuel and tolls.
- we have a static caravan for £50 each for 4 nights
- entry is £85 each

Not the cheapest event but perfectly doable for £250 plus food / beer if you don't have too many other restrictions to negotiate.
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Crusader 3244 on 24 Feb 2014, 03:01
Tom thanks, I do take your point, but fuel costs vary with where you live in the UK, and other restrictions one must negotiate rise with the distance needed to travel and/or alter with circumstance.
The quotes I returned were relatively consistent, crossings were panning out to £300+ (for two) unless I chose a route with a greater drive across France to incur more fuel costs, fatigue, and tolls.
Your costs applied to a double trailer carry two boats and two teams for the price of one. If anything you confirm my estimated budget is a reasnable ball-park figure with reasonable contingency thrown in for one team with a single trailer. The event would cost me almost as much as the boat did.
Short of sleeping a la belle etiole sur la plage I cannot see our all in costs coming in under £650 for two. But I do not know for sure all college assignments will be complete by May 23rd and that means I could book but run risks the event will be underway before we can depart/arrive.
In the unlikely event someone has booked a double combo from Manchester and has free space to offer we would join you without hesitation.
Have lots of fun, post lots of pictures, and do a write-up. Not only will we be delighted for those who chose to go, but we'll turn green with envy, m8.
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: angus on 24 Feb 2014, 11:04
If by Loch Doodah you mean Loch Tummel it is almost always the last full week in July.
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Biniou on 27 Feb 2014, 07:31
I broke my mast and repared it... But if some body has an extra mast ( aluminium or carbon) for my BaggyThrousers "MissPrism", it would be nice to bring it to me. For a cheap price (Flanby took all my money!):o
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Biniou on 03 Mar 2014, 10:39
The length of the mast is 6,50 m:X
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tom J (Guest) on 11 Apr 2014, 02:10
Just a nice little milestone reached this morning courtesy of Scorpion 2030… entries are now at 100!

I know there are a couple in there who may no longer be able to make it but we’ve smashed the 30 boat target regardless and there is still time for any late additions. And if anyone hasn't paid their deposit yet please could you do so as there will be more bills to pay soon. Everyone who's deposit has been received is marked off on the entry list.

Thanks,
Tom
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Biniou on 22 Apr 2014, 07:38
Oups, this European event occurs the day we are supposed to vote for Europe....:D
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Biniou on 10 May 2014, 11:16
Dont be afraid, we will vote by proxy...
The last trouble is my broken mast!:o
Title: Re: European Event
Post by: Tom J (Guest) on 15 May 2014, 05:54
Fiona Cam has researched a few local activities that might be of interest to the shore party in Carnac... please take a look at http://carnac2014.org/?page_id=59 (http://carnac2014.org/?page_id=59) and let her know ASAP if any are of interest or if you have any questions.