Hi,
My dad's just bought an old GRP national12 and he wants to know what it is!?!?
Its sail number is 2712 and has wooden decks with a plastic hull.
Does anyone know what it might be or is there a register where I could find out what model it is?
It's been sold as a 'cobra' but we can't find any trace of a 'cobra' design anywhere :-/
Any information will be much apreciated
Thanks
SamD 3128
Hi N2712 is a Cobra and was called "Troubleshooter" it was built by Thames Services in '73. I'm no expert but I don't think many were built. The most popular new boats at that time were Paper Darts in GRP or Cheshire Cats in wood.
Richard N2134 :)
Sam,
If either you or your Dad were to join the NTOA then you would receive a lot of pubilications about the history of the class and a list of boats with their designs, builders etc. You would also be helping to fund work like keeping this website up and organinsing training and events.
Contact details are above,
Antony
N3484
Hi Sam,
Back in 1973 I was the proud owner of 2711 - a Cobra designed by Mal McDougal, hull built by Thames Services. The design came out about 6 months before Paper Dart and was quite similar - China Doll/ Whisper sort of shape underwater but with a smooth hull and quite wide (over 6ft if I remember correctly). The main problem (unlike Papaer Dart) was that the hulls were not foam constrution GRP and so were not stiff enough. The good news is that for an older boat it makes for easier repairs. The lack of stiffness made them slow off-wind and slow to plane. The other problem was that they didn't have a lot of feeboard and so were very wet up-wind in a chop. The wide beam didn't help much on the river or inland.
Troubleshooter was originally owned by Peter King who sailed at Staines SC on the river. He was a quick sailor and I belive Mal McDougal was keen to get him in one of these boats to get one near the front (he didn't have much hope with me!). I think Peter got a 4th place in one of the races at Burtion week that year (Plymouth??). Peter was a frequent Thames Area competitior in the 70's when the Thames Area had over a dozen open meetings. Like me he didn't keep his Cobra long.
I think there were just 3 moulds taken fro Mal's oroginal wooden boat. I don't know what happened to the third hull or where my old boat is now. 2712 was green 2711 was grey, I think the third was a blue hull. They all had wooden decks and were finished by Bob Becket who was almost Mal's personnal boat-builder at the time (he had a new design almost every year in those days).
I haven't heard from Mal for a number of years, he was living in the Lyminton area and was a memeber of Royal Lymington. After he retired he was a IORC measurer for a time. Most 12 sailors who were around in the 70's and early 80's will have known and/or remember him.
Cheers,
Dave C
Dave,
If my memory serves me right there were 5 Cobra's built, Mal's original - yours and Peter Kings and then two others King Cobra and Kaa. I remember Viv Ward sailing King Cobra at Queen Mary back in the days when we had a half decent fleet there! Those were the days I was sailing Bullitt and Dave Wilkins had Penny Pincher...........
And who remembers the Ogre's?
John
John,
Long time ago and a long time since we've been in contact what are you sailing now???
You could be right about 5 Cobra's but I thought King Cobra wasn't one of the Thames Services hulls (put it down to old age and poor memory!). Ogre ended up with Will and went very fast with him but then any boat goes fast that he sails. I rememeber Caroline Martin having one for a while too. It's a shame the fleet died out but then 12's have always been open-meeting minded and not very clubby (at risk of being contentious!).
Dave
Thank you all very much for the info on the cobra :D
It'll be sailing most weekends this year at the Deben Yacht Club, Woodbridge along with a couple of other twelves.
Thanks very much, it's good to know the history of the boat.
sam
tigress 3128
Hi Sam, if you are at Deben Yacht Club you are just one river away from Royal Harwich! why not come to our dinner on the 18th and the midwinter champs the next day. Should be another couple of A/C boats out and it will be fun. Details on the Mid Winter link somewhere in the last couple of posts.
Obviously everyone is invited to the dinner and so far 36 have said yes which is brilliant and about 10 confirmed for sailing!
Thanks guys
Helen
Thanks for the invite Helen, but my boat has bare decks at the moment and I need to wait a few weeks til it's warm enough for varnishing :( (the joys of wooden boats!)
as soon as my boats ready (mid march) I'll be sailing every weekend and I'll try to get to as many opens as possible ;D
Hmmmm...How many open meetings are there within decent range of Deben Yacht Club??
When is there a 12 open at RHYC?
SamD
Tigress 3128
Hi Sam,
It is indeed the joys of wooden boats but that wont stop you coming to the dinner on the saturday!!!
I think there is a 12 open at DYC if you organise one basically I'm afraid! Within a decent range though we have, Royal Harwich again on the 9th 10 June, Aldeburgh at the end of that month. The Easter Egg and Cartoon at Waldringfield, Thorpe Bay??.....?? Notts County? Trent Valley?? Just follow the events link and see what else there is.
Hope to see you at some of them.
Helen
Hi Sam!
Good to see another Tigress has survived 25 years! I wonder how many are still being sailed. Would be good to find out - don't you think?
Jim
Tigress N3130 (Nutty Shell)
Speaking of old Tigress this one looks pretty decent:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/National-12-Sailing-Dinghy-Sail-No-3156_W0QQitemZ7216181418QQcategoryZ98955QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Sam: If you see this message could you possibly email me at antonygifford@aol.com as I am trying to accumulate as many East Anglian 12 sailors email addresses as possible. There will certainly be a crowd of us at Waldringfield for Easter if you are interested in coming down the river or popping over to see the newer boats.
Antony
N3484
Hi sam!
Never raced against 12s. I'm in the middle of Bavaria, Germany after having bought Nutty Shell last year from someone in Manchester. Sailing's good here - I've a lake with 8 nautical miles! (Ammersee). As for delicate construction, can't complain. Got to patch up a few stress cracks in the round bilge near the jib fairleads and seal off the transom with epoxy though.
Nutty Shell sails well and can compete with Pirates, lasers and Korsairs. Gets many wolf-whistles because of her "Sofia Lauren" curves :)). Starts to spread her wings in Bft. 2. I got a yardstick for the lake recently. They took the Portsmouth of 1136 for N12 A/C boats of that age, and cross-referenced with a Europe, having an equal Portsmouth Yardstick since this is also sailed in Germany. A bit hit-and-miss, but I ended up with 116 for the Ammersee. It's a bit academic, since I'm far too heavy with 14 stone (unless I sail singel handed!!!!). Another option would be to train my 8 year-old daughter up to crew..... I'll send her off to the ICC in Salcombe to get her fit.....
At the moment, the lake's frozen, so I'm sailing on ice at another nearby lake. I'll send you a few pickies if you like. my dream of course is to entice a few N12 sailors over, but it's a bit of a long way for the weekend!!!
Jim N3130 (Nutty Shell)