I want to do an article in the next Ratchet on National 12 ownership. As this is likely to go in the 'London Boat Show' promotional issue, I would like to build an accurate picture of who owns 12's, where we sail them, where we keep them.
How old is the average National 12 owner? What is the average age at an average 12 event? How many boys, how many girls, what levels of expertise, what is the average age of the boats?
No doubt I can get data from Michael Brookman, but I want to know what you lot think and see how it compares with any data we hold.
How many 12 owners sail in different classes? what results do you get when sailing in different boats?
I believe we will all be surprised at the outcome of any survey and am sure it will present the class in a very positive light.
I'm going to try and get a survey together with the committee and post / email you all, meantime let's have an open forum...
Simon
ED, Ratchet
N?
I run a survey every year for the Musto Skiff Class;
See http://www.mustoskiff.com/survey/survey-public.htm
We use this data to communicate with members and decide future issues on fixtures, builds, event style, messages and many other issues.
We also survey non-owners to understand what they think of the class and find out what is stopping them joining us ...
You can't decide how to move forwards until you really know where you are at present.
Rick
Rick,
Very interesting. Do you sample the public (non-owners) uniquely from the class website? I ask this because there would appear to be a bias in favor of those potentially attracted to the class and/or those who are aware of the website/survey.
If the NTOA were to carry out the survey from the website alone, we'd have to bear this in mind.... ??)
Cheers
Jim N3130 and N3470.
Sudden thought - ideal to try a survey at next January's Dinghy Exhibition ???????
Have we done one recently at such an event????
Jim N3130 and 3470
You have to be careful at the dinghy exhibition because you want to promote the class and if you are having a survey put in front of you it might put people off? The fear is being mailshot for the rest of the year!
Hmmmm. How would you do it Jon_P?
Jim ??)
[quote by=Jimbo41 link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool,m=1163443689,s=3 date=1163497363]Rick,
Very interesting. Do you sample the public (non-owners) uniquely from the class website? I ask this because there would appear to be a bias in favor of those potentially attracted to the class and/or those who are aware of the website/survey.
If the NTOA were to carry out the survey from the website alone, we'd have to bear this in mind.... ??)
Cheers
Jim N3130 and N3470.[/quote]
The survey was promoted via the class eNews that has over 600 subscribers the majority of whome don't own Musto Skiffs and on the website. So of course many are interested but don't own boats - just the sort of folk who may join the class. I think you'd be interested in the opinions of owners and people who may buy ... who cares about the opinions of anyone who isn't likley to sail a 12?
If the NTOA were to do this I think a press campaign would be required to get a good response and would be a great PR exercise in it's own right to prod many of the lapsed owners ...
Rick
A similar survey was carried out about 5 years ago and was co-ordinated by Gavin, a few volunteers were given 10 names each to phone up and complete a "telephone" questionaire. It was quite hard work, especially to get non-active sailors to open up about why they weren't sailing as much as we would like them to! Gavin might still have the data, I can't imagine that much has changed.
David
3461
[quote by=Jimbo41 link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool,m=1163443689,s=6 date=1163498762] Hmmmm. How would you do it Jon_P?
Jim ??)[/quote]
Not sure Jim,
But alot of people go for a wander round and have a look. they fancy having a nosey and the 12 looks great so we should have no problems!!! If i was going to the boat show i would not want to be asked how old i was, hiow many kids i have and how often i compete. Do you see what I mean? Not exactly good marketing!
I think web or phone is the best way of doing it.
I might as well answer the thread too! sail with my partner (she's female!) both 24. Race a RS vareo when have no crew. Race at club level every week in nottingham. Boat is 20 years old. Wil try and get to a few natioanl events next year.
Rick,
interesting aspect. How did you get the email list? Just by people making enquiries via the website? We might be able to do the same....
Davidg, I'm also of the opinion that ringing up and pestering isn't the answer. It's too labour-intensive.
I'm particularly interested in targeting parents and families (re)turning to 12's to give their children a taste. It's these kid's that are going to form part of the future of the class.
In my opinion the popularity of a class has little to do with the objective direct performance of the boat per se. Take for example, the popularity of the Mirror or Optimist. It's more to do with how its image performs, which is a marketing issue. So target your market ...(after ascertaining where the target is of course!!!!!) and push the boat out!!!!!
Cheers!
Jim N3130 and 3470 (Soon to be mine)
In answer to the thread, I'm 42, married, with a child of 9 whose already hooked on (Optimist) sailing, but occassionally sails with me (she says it's boring under 4bft!?!?). I also have a more permanent crew member who's female and my age. My wife is starting to get interested in dinghy sailing, but prefers to charter larger boats on holiday.
My boat's a Tigress, 27 years old and I'm about to acquire a Man O War from Simon. We like wood. We sail in Germany - last year competitively for the first time on our local Bavarian lake - and want to come over to England next year for BW and Salcombe and maybe try every year after that. (Loosing weight fast!!!!)
Oh yes, I forgot to add that I also crew a Flying Dutchman, when my helm gets motivated enough to want to sail.
Cheers,
Jim N3130 and 3470
Not sure the Class is 'ageing' as many of the newer members (at least on the forum) seem to be as Jim described returneers to sailing. Ricks / Skiff survey is interesting - I'd also like to know where all the old boats are now - this may help to encourage folks to sail and help to track our history.
I'm sure I've said this before but I believe there are very few 'new' N12 sailors that buy a DB boat as 1st (Rick is possibly one exception) - my observation is most try out an older boat and then get hooked and move on or wither away?? The AC type is a very economical way into sailing - in some cases why worry about maintenance - buy a 'done up boat' sail it for a year or two and then flog it for about what you paid for it - little or no deprciation (one guy at Grafham said he bought one for 250 then sold on for 500!).
Me - age 41, ex yoof laser sailor, now sail with my sons (14,10,5,1) at local gravel pit. Did BW this year (can't do 07), did some Gill & SW opens this year - plan to do some more next. This is my 2nd 12 in about 4 years. Longer term may upgrade to a DB but enjoy the AC sailing and balancing wants vs family budget is always tricky!
How do we get the 'Feva' type folks to look at a 12 - example at our Club we have a big Cadet Class - then some parents want to sail with them so Feva seems to be a 'good' option. Do we accept we are a niche and just try to get all those that currently own a 12 out sailing - people will join the Class if its active. See 'my views' in the latets Ratchet.
Kean
N3339
Kean, the Vareo gets publicity of the right sort and then sells.. It doesn't sail though.. ;D
As I said before, you've got to pimp the publicity to sell your wares. These vareo sailors should be 12 sailors. The trouble is that both parents and children will eventually become bored with the Vareo (or indeed any old plastic fantastic of this type of class), whereas they won't easily with the 12. Ephasise the positive, deemphasize the (what?) negative in 12s. I admit it isn't easy to compete with so much advertising. Butn first, determine your market target(s). There might be more than one......
Jim (Don't knock wood)
The musto skiff survey is good - and I'll subscribe to their newsletter now.
All old and light it appears! ( I'm definitely one and definitely not the other).
I'm the archetypal new N12 sailor in via the low cost AC route - but now with two other boats (N12 is number 3), limited sailing time, limited boat funds and an increasing size crew, the N12 - beautiful in wood as she is and tucked up nice and dry and warm in the garage - may have to go.
Barry
N3364
... maybe when people join the class they buy an AC because there arn't any DB's for sale.
When I looked I think the boat we brought was the ONLY DB for sale ...
Rick
Rick, re. your quote...
It didn't take me very long to get hooked and want a DB boat!!! I think the major hurdle is the price of a DB - even a 2nd Hand one is expensive (Passion Pudding is perhaps an exception) look at the 2nd hand market for Ospreys - compared with a more recent AC yot. The class is apparently attractive to (re)turners with Kids filled with enthusisam with limited budgets.
I get the impression - rightly or wrongly - that the class DB issue is not one of cost, more of weight. The article in Ratchet re. carbon seem to support this view. Carbon is however, expensive (Mr. T's Crazy Diamond is for example, apparently not a 2nd Hand Market option). Glass is less expensive, but perhaps heavier.
The answer to this problem is maybe to have some type of "concensus build" for those who would like to be competitive, but can't afford to buy a DB at the current average price.
Saying that and not wishing to be too advertisingly biased ;D Dare Barry has said that his hull material costs add up to no more than around 600-800 Squids. This does not include the cost of building the hull though, nor the fittings....
We've heard elsewhere that wooden based boats can't be built lighter before they lose their stiffness. But, I ask you, when you're taking your kids out to sail at least weightwise you've got the edge on a fully grown crew anyway. In my view, build wood and satisfy this market interest.
Oh, and if those of you out there want to sell their 2nd hand DB's - the market will, inevitably determine the price....Unless you all want to keep them unused and grumbling in your second garage for 20 years or so.... :)
Ok, rant's over....
Jim N3130 3470 (wood - you should)
See ... you already know the answer.
But of course you need to do the research first so you get the right message for the right segment.
Rick
Rick, I've a suggestion we should (heavily) advertise Burton Week and invite people down to see the yots in practice. There might even be the chance of a tryout... ??)
I seem to remember that Grazz mentioned there was a kind of open class publicity day on some (obscure) stretch of inland water and that N12 volunteers were called for. I think it was last year. Maybe we should also get in amongst the Vareos, Toppers, Cadets, Mirrors etc. and shake 'em up a bit. We could also have an event of our own... Sponsors please - you know who you are, now shake your beans!!!
Publicity via Y&Y? They seem fairly sympathetic to our cause (if the money's right)
Wot do the rest of us think???
Jim N3130 and 3470 (steaming up over the horizon).
Don't we need to get our boats out sailing - from a quick check (vlookup is a good Excel function!) of the DBs using the 06 Gil and BW - where are these boats??
3413,3414,3416,3417,3420,3422,3424,3425,3426,3433,3434,3435,3440,3444,3445,3446,3448,3451,3452,3453,3456,3461,3462,3466,3467,3470,3475,3476,3478,3480,3486,3487,3489,3503,3504
Thats 34 DBs maybe not seen out this year?? This may not be an exact count - if you did similar for AC types from say 3000 to 3410 - what would the active count be vs non-active?
If we don't sail our own boats why should others see us on their radar screen? I'm still quite sure that most DBs go to an existing N12 sailor. The issue maybe is we don't have the 'go fast extra' kit (whereas we don't actually need it to be nearly as fast or faster) - this is much about product perception & marketing - how many gizmos do you have on your new bit of hi tech equipment - how often do you usually use them?? How do we get folks considering a 2 person boat to put us on their list?? This is where we will struggle - our Club had an Rs500 demo day last year - to help attract possible yoof sailors / parent / yoof - the ACs are just NOT suited to our water - but would RS tell you that??? I'm sure we all have people at our own Clubs that like the appearance of going faster in a more 'modern' boat but the reality is the 12 is a developed class.
Kean
Why not have a National 12 day?!
Get boats to meet up at clubs so there are 4-5 boats at big ish clubs around thecountry and let people tyry them ?
We have an open day at our club for general sailing and get hundreds of random people turn up.
not sure if it would really work but thought mihgt suggest it!
main problem i see is trying to stop people buying rs200s. they are the only real new build threat.
why not do a comparison in y&Y, stating weights and performance etc.
put them on an inland lake and get them to race and see difference in performace!
rs200, rs feva, firefly, ent, laser 2k, miracle, magno, comet duo??, etc - i'm sure there are more are all potentials for someones radar screen - I know I considered some of these before opting for a 12.
It would be really interesting comparison and I'm sure great publicity to have at the boat shows stating various weights etc, and I'm sure we would do well in the comparison, even on new build price against 2k and 200.
i think you can cut down that list a bit too as otherwise you would end up with every 2 person boat! I think you can take out the feva as it's a pretty tiny boat and maybe even the miracle as it's crap! - no offense to anyone who has a 2nd boat that happens to be a mirracle! Even th e 2k is a bit more a of a family cruiser than a nimble racing dinghy. if that's what they want then the n12 would not be for them anyway.
In answer to Keans question, at least three of the boats were never built despite having numbers allocated - 3425, 3487 and 3504. And in addition another three club race week in week out only limited interest in travelling away from home, 3435, 3452 and 3480
Also we have to remember that the strength of a class isn't just judged by open meeting numbers - the real strength is in the numbers club racing, the grass roots of our sport.
Currently at Salcombe we have 5 boats that club race on a regular basis and I think that there will be more next year - I doubt that any of them will do any open meetings in 2007 except the 2 Salcombe ones. They have all bought Twelves because they are possibly the best class to sail on the estuary and if we get about 6 boats racing week in week out who needs the agro and expense of trailing around the country to realistically sail against the same people in what amounts to glorified club racing?
We have to remember that not everyone actually enjoys drivng 2 or 3 hours in a car to get to a venue, having had a sparrow f**t start, to sail 3 races and be almost too sh****d out to then drive home!
My personal belief is that historicaly the class has put too much emphesis on the Open Meeting circuit to the detriment of the classes club racing base.
One of the delights of a Twelve is that its possible to pick up a crew of the beach and go sailing - how many crews have been introduced to the class this way and have then gone on to be very competitent helms in the class, I can think of quite a few from Salcombe to start with!!
Will I be doing any opens next year, once the knees allow me back on the water? I doubt it, I will be supporting fleet racing in my home club!
Got that one off my chest.....................................
John
If you looked at the other opens outside of the Gill series I think you would find most of those boats....
Boat on boat racing full stop is the only reason for having the class in the first place, otherwise you might as well just sail whatever 12 foot boat suited your fancy. Mine would have a daggerboard and spinnaker but I would have no friends to race with. Open meetings are important, as is club sailing but one will always suffer the other.
Kean, the first two boats in your list are single bottoms!
"Dare Barry has said that his hull material costs add up to no more than around 600-800 Squid"
Jim, you could build a glass sandwich hull for not much more than this, if you have the time or the inclination to DIY. Problem is most dont and resort to purchase. Whatever way you look at it saving money on the hull is only a tiny fraction of the all up cost of a boat. The consensus boat only exists if you want to build it. When you realise that actually the project will cost at least 5K you might as well do it properly.
Mikey C,
3031 and 3487. (Does it count if there is no hull?)
Mike, I'm trying to understand what you have written here:
"Jim, you could build a glass sandwich hull for not much more than this, if you have the time or the inclination to DIY."
(I only quoted Dare, since he has given a complete breakdown for one of his hulls)
"The consensus boat only exists if you want to build it."
(I don't understand. Be more direct.)
"When you realise that actually the project will cost at least 5K you might as well do it properly."
(Meaning that no "home built" boat is ever properly done...?????)
I don't have a complete breakdown of the material costs.... Any estimates?
(In other words, pay someone to do it for you, 'cos you'd never get it right? I say sit back and wait for your next customer....)
Interesting. If this is a consensus opinion, perhaps we as a class as a whole and the builders need to work on our advertising... :D
Jim N3130 and 3470 (much revised)
No, I'm saying a home built boat will cost you close to 5K by the time you have added masts, sails, foils, trailers and the like in. The material cost difference between 800 for a ply boat and 1000 for a glass/foam one is b***er all in the grand scheme of things. Everyone sees the hull cost and goes "woo, thats cheap" but its not the hull that costs the money...
My wording was obviously poor and I must have misunderstood your consensus build comment the first time around.
Some home builds are properly done, and I mean no slight on anyone who gives it a shot, but to do a home build properly you have to draw a line under your own skills somewhere and concentrate on doing the bits you can. masts and foils are generally better left to experts until you have enough experience. My first boat I knew I would be up against it and bought in the rig and foils, my second I built everything except the mast and sails.
[quote by=Jane_Wade link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool,m=1163443689,s=33 date=1163535829]I could go on ranting having sailed this Burton Week with my dear husband who seems to have highlighted every negative aspect of a class I have sailed, loved and even chaired in the last twenty years!
Jane[/quote]
What is that negative aspect ?
the facts of the burton week attendances of the last 10 years demonstrate that the entry numbers of over aged 40 helms have gone from 30% to 50% of the fleet. The percentage under 21 has remained stable. This suggests to me that on a Burton Week attendance level at least, we are an ageing population. This demographic would also suggest greater disposable incomes and therefore the price of the boats should be less of an issue. I suppose that this is conflicting evidence!
Meds.
Price will always be an issue for some but I would not obsess about it ...
Our 2nd had prices are comparible with the off the shelf boats and the 12 is a far superior product ...
Rick
Are we an aging population? I am the 58 year old helm of a 48 year old 12, with 20 year old sails and a 66 year old crew. Is this a record? (Probably not.)
John (N1662)
This seems to be moving off topic a little... But having just started a company and having had to write a business plan (ugh!) I can tell you that all marketing advice is to be Market led, not Product led.
Whats the difference? Product or Market Led? In a sales or product led business the seller expects the customer to buy whatever they can supply. Successful businesses adopt a market led approach by producing or selling what the customer wants or needs. Think more about the market rather than the product or service.
Here endeth the marketing lesson... (not that I have taken this advice myself, I'm sure my product will sell, because I LIKE IT!)
Philip
N3253
... I'm just off to suck some eggs ...
Jane,
We need more builders but should all buy winder foolishes, erm? Surely its the 'hassle free-ness' and easy pace of all the current designs that means people don't feel the need to upgrade. I can't speak for Kevin but the other two BI2s on the end hand list are there for purely practical reasons, knees in Pauls case and moving countries in mine. I certainly wouldn't part with my Mike built boat otherwise - I certainly felt at the champs that I could hold height and speed with Tom just fine (with 18 month old, well used mainsail) it was the lack of practice, lack of fitness and poor decision making on my part that meant we were only 9th (on 1 days practice in the whole year...)
Define reasonable price...
Fast turnover of boats seems to happen 3 ways:
Sophisticated and expensive SMOD advertising to convince owners they need a newer boat (but aren't they all perfectly equal anyway...)
Bucketfulls of wonga to upgrade for the hell of it (i.e. Merlins)
Bucketfulls of wonga and fast obsolescence of designs (i.e. 14s)
The 12s have none of these things as a general rule and to look at the positive our biggest selling point is being able to have an individualised boat that will be competitive for a decent length of time.
As for the AC idea, great as a theory but only works in practice in the unlikely event that everyone is of the same ability. At one point Starcross was seeing up to 8 ACs racing but the fleet is only together for the first 50yds and then would seperate up by ability. The only place to get regular close racing is on the open circuit - I'm sure this is the same for any other class with small club fleets. Maybe if you had a 25 boat club fleet then maybe having 5 boats of a similar level might be viable - time to start pressing the flesh at northampton ;)
Hi Rick,
Did not realise there was a marketing guru in our midst (perhaps more than one?) Do I take it that you agree, we should be more market driven?
The comittee focus seems the be to protect the product at all costs, whether ther is a market or not. Which is understandable, because anyone on the committee will find it hard to see the class from the outsiders point of view.
Philip
N3253
Philip,
I think you can protect the product and still market it successfully. There are so many reasons why people sail 12's. You've just go to pick the market incentive(s)/drivers that is/are current and push the corresponding positive reasons for sailing the 12 which already exist, be it: individuality; (class) conviviality; children + family sailing; go-kart speed feeling; responsiveness; history; teaching capacity; long competitve life, and so on.
Let's get on with it at the Next Boat Show shall we.... 8)
Jim N3130 (27 years old and still going strong) and N3470 (6 years old and .....)
Spot on Jim,
The 12 is so versatile it can be anything you/the market want it to be.
It's like when the Vareo was launched by RS they sold it as a performance racing dinghy with enough room for dad to take the kid out when he was not racing!
That is just made up hype! but people bought it!
I think the 12 could be sold a lot better.
[quote by=philipcosson link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool,m=1163443689,s=43 date=1163591794]Hi Rick,
Did not realise there was a marketing guru in our midst (perhaps more than one?) Do I take it that you agree, we should be more market driven?
[/quote]
Of course which is why I have previously suggested research as the first step and I have offered some of my time FOC to the chairman ...
Rick
Jon_P,
I am your opinion, 'cos what we've got to sell has substance and has (with a little development :D) stood the test of time...
Come on Antony! Let Rick do his stuff!!!!
Cheers!
Jim N3130 and 3470
Having held the position of publicity officer about 25 years ago (must be ageing), let me have my penny worth!
We are too small a sample to spot any obvious candidates for the class. The class has always had a problem with protecting its existing fleet, vs. adapting to demands of the market. We are not a manufacturers class therefore there will always be inertia and a reluctance to embrace change. At the moment we have a great product, unfortunately we have limited resources to sell it, and the supply chain is not very good and we are quite expensive.
The important thing is "beating the drum", this is best done by someone with lots of enthusiasm (a cynic might sugest naive enough to think he (or she) can make a difference).
On this front (and I note that my boat was on the Gill non attendees list), the key to attendance at any club, Gill or Burton Cup event is that there should be a good vibe in the class, so that helm's and crews want to go to the next event and will make the time. Once the sequence is broken inertia sets in, which is why the selection of venues and event management is critical to the class going forward.
Sometimes this has nothing to do with the class, but is down to the weather, my last Gill Event was at Datchet 3 years ago which was dismal and my last Burton was Weymouth, where the weather made it very hard to sell Burton Week as a future family holiday.
We do like sailing at Salcombe though!
Regards,
David
3461
I do read this forum, as most of you know, and I and the rest of the committee have not been idle since Burton Wk. There is a lot of stuff going on to prepare the class for 2007 and to create the sort of re-invigoration both next year and on a longer-term and sustainable basis that Dave Greening and others suggest is important.
However, the NTOA is not run as a dictatorship yet and so I do need to discuss things with the Committee and we do need to think about priorities before we spend our members subscriptions. In the next two weeks or so you should see some activity, starting with the publication of the fixtures for next year, and then you will know that we have been busy on your behalf.
I hope that al of those contributing to this discussion will hold this enthusiasm through until the 2007 sailing season begins... bodes well for the turnout at the first Gill event.
Antony
Even the experts need a reminder of their craft from time to time and Philip I think you are right.
David I also wholeheartedly agree with your comments and us fickle Brits are very easily swayed by the weather. We had a fabulous summer this year but the weather at Burton Week was really poor which makes taking non-sailing family members away much harder.
Rick - my message outlined where I believe the negative aspects of the class currently lie and I believe others have also highlighted some other areas. Don't misunderstand me I do love sailing the boats and Grafham (only 40 minutes from home) with 30 other boats was fantastic. I want to sail with lots of enthusiastic people and that is getting harder in this fleet.
Jane (MA Leisure Marketing!!!)
Apologies!! No I think to be fair he just got uptight and cross because he struggled to compete in a way that he would have found satisfactory. He is far more competent in a trapeze/spinnaker set up! It is far more fun sailing with someone who has a genuine passion for the class.
Jane
All I can say is that I am very POSITIVE about sailing with Jane at the Royal Harwich mini-series this weekend - a weekend when my home club does not have any racing scheduled - and for the foreseeable future!
Kevin
Mark, the point I was trying to make is that maintaining momentum and a feel good factor is the key to building on previous successful events. Keeping families and crews interested is an important factor. Sometimes factors outside the control of the class can conspire to break this momentum. As a sailor I had a great time at Weymouth, especially the windy day in the harbour, it wasn't so good for the rest of the family who were holed up in a house a mile from the sailing club. This broke the successful sequence of Tenby and Looe. I could not pursuade them to go to Abersoch the next year, had Weymouth been a more enjoyable week for non-sailors it might have been different. Like it or not, for us any summer sailing week has to be a family holiday.
In this case the weather was completely outside the control of the committee (I think!) but it does break the sequence. If you look back at turnouts at Burton Weeks I am sure that there is a direct correlation between good BW turnouts in the year following a successful BW and reduced turnouts following a poor BW.
Actually my reason for not sailing the 12 so much is even more pathetic, my double stack trailer is such a pain to move around, trailing to meeting to meeting has become too much hasle! Easier to go to one place and stay there.
Regards,
David
3461
Do those sales figures include sailing schools?
Jimbo,
I don't think that slagging off other classes is the way forward here. The fact of the matter is that this is a situation of 'horses for courses' - some people enjoy sailing what you call plastic fantastics, and there is no need for us to have a go at them. It certainly won't encourage those people to then have a go in class that will end up looking like a bunch of snobs.
Personally I loved sailing 12s for a good few years. However, I am not doing a lot of sailing currently for various reasons - one of which is a severe lack of time - but if I were to find myself with more time I would probably be engagaing in club sailing (another reason for lack of sailing is lack of money and open meetings cost more!). In order to get the most out of club sailing, I probably wouldn't be in a 12, simply because it is only on rare occasions that other 12s make appearences at the club.
However, this does not mean that I do not like the 12, it simply means that in my particular circumstances it is not the mot appealing boat right now. I would like to think I could return to the 12 fleet on occasion without being scolded for having sailed in "a plastic fantastic" which may or may not have had a "spinachmaker".
So, to sum up - having a go at other people because they sail something different from you is not a good advert for the class. It is also not a good advert for yourself. The world is made up of a lot of different types of people, some of whom enjoy sailing and some of whom do not. Some of those people may currently enjoy sailing in something that is not a 12 - this does not make them wrong, it merely makes them different from you. In order to increase the appeal of the 12 to those people, it is not a good idea to put down what they do. Maybe it would be more productive to say "Fair enough, but would you like to have a go in my boat to see if you like it?".
Rant over.
Emma (23 if anyone's interested!)
I have to agree with Mrs Roly Mo and Emma on this one. I have not done Burton Week for years now as it does not fit in with my schedule of things. Instead I prefer to do Norfolk Week. This has nothing to do with the quality of whatever is going on at either event. All the folk who have posted comments on this subject all sail 12s and enjoy them. If we did not we would not sail them. I think that we have an ageing population, but that does not really matter, if you look at what Meds wrote pages ago. Folk new to sailing will be lured by the marketing millions of all the Plastic Fantastics, but will no doubt realise that the boat was not what they wanted. People who do and have sailed for some time will be attracted to the 12 due to its unique position in the market which is going to be hard to do anything about as we have not got shed loads of money to throw at it.
I will be happy to continue to sail 12s until I pop my clogs which if I carry on like this will not be long in coming.
8)
OOOH sorry Jimbo I used your sail number in my last post. (Yes I've crewed 3130 as well...obviously as my Partner Mike used to own her) MY sail no is 3306.......
Janey
Janey - I don't mind - so long as THAT type of cohabitation does not result in "Equity"
Jim N3130 and 3470 (Confused - so am I!) ;D :P ;)