the dates for next seasons youth series are as follows
bloody mary 6th janurary
27th march burghfield
24-25th april saturday coaching sunday racing at spinnaker
1-3 may salcombe
26-27th june, Hykeham
22nd august redesmere
28-29th august, scottish champs
18 & 19 September Grafham Water SC
10 October Twickenham SC
6 & 7 November Northampton SC
also i am looking for ideas for encouraging the future of the class (our young people)
my ideas are, holding an informal youth nationals type event (sadly not possible this year)
holding more youth focused events
starting team racing events for fun
more class members being willing to lend boats to young people from other classes for events ( i know many already to for which i am very greatful)
getting more young people sailing at mixed class opens
and big advertising
i really want to hear your ideas and feedback
thanks
I am very pleased to see you have included the Twickenham Open meeting in your 2010 youth series.
The helm of the latest 12 to arrive at TYC is just 16 years of age. Whilst crewing in Enteprises he saw 12s gliding past and decided he wanted one.
What about the Mericks at Rutland in. Feb. This is after all a youth event, and Rutland is a very central location.(http://www.national12.org/blahdocs/Smilies/cool.png) Cool glasses.
Sorry, I forgot to say good luck to you all for 2010 and enjoy.
I have an off the wall idea for the youth series for next year, and that is to not limit the age of the crew.
If you couple it with having qualification at events that are not part of the gill series, we may well see some of our family teams swapping positions in the boats.
If you look, we had 23 family boats and only 7 juniors. if all those 23 let the crew have a go at the wiggle stick it would greatly increase the attendances and challenge, and give the crews a different perspective in experience.
I am not young anymore........ But this does look like a good idea to me.
I am also not young! However I also think it is a great idea. Any moves that help to get more young people sailing the 12 has to be positive. ( I will not be siting in the front but the boat could be there for the right person for the odd event)
well if we allowed crews to be over the 25 age limit, it brings a very un fair advantage, having an experienced helm as a crew can get amost anyone a good way up a fleet. as most of the competitors own their own boats to, we dont want to become a chequebook class where parents are buying their kids places now.
so no sorry the age limit is going to stay the same, with a small twist to be announced soon
Didn't know my chequebook could get me a crew? I normally get pestered for hardware!
I agree with OMSC. I think Junior/Crews races at open meetings or club sailing for that matter are a great idea. I'm not sure the idea should be dismissed out of hand
Speaking as a one time fully paid up member of the Crews Union, I will say that the crew is hugely important and, as we know, helms can't do without us. Speaking a parent, I know that Ben and Alex would much rather sail with their peers and not their father who would be telling them what to do all the time (that's their take on it anyway) But, if you are trying to get a series together, it just might be helpful if an experienced crew was there to introduce the newcomers to open meetings, you could always restrict the number of races sailed with an old crew (and we'd promise to go to bed early so as not to spoil the party).
Good luck with the series
Helming in an open meeting can be very daunting, i did my first one this summer in my laser and was quite worried. So i agree with Phil maybe a compromise could be made with an older crew being allowed for one or two races to gain confidence , i know for me it would certainly give me confidence.
One other thing being if we had young crews with young helms might this act against the whole point, we want your youngsters helming??
Naomi
" One other thing being if we had
young crews with young helms might this act against the whole point, we
want your youngsters helming?? "
the point of the series is to have young crews and helms sailing together.
phil im also a crew usually, but going over to helming next year, i and many other competitors would find it very un fair for a good helm to go at the front of the boat.
so sorry all but its going to stay as both helm and crew must be under 25.
however as all the open meetings except one, are 12 opens anyway, people could let their crews helm at any open meeting they wish to, and when they are ready to sail with a peer then they can qualify for the youth series.
sorry to dissapoint some, but its all in the persuit of fair sailing
thanks
Sam
Whilst I understand what the original premise of the series was set up to achieve, it would seem this could better be achieved by freeing up the restriction on the crews. As you are no doubt aware helming a 12 is not that straightforward (I speak mainly from others experience!) and on the few occasions that I have helmed I have been lucky enough to have a 'good' crew in the front (Charlotte Stewart was the last one!). I would not have entertained the idea without an experienced crew - they can look after everything leaving the helm to concentrate purely on helming and mainsail.
I think there are many under 25s sitting in the front of boats currently that might be encouraged into the back of the same boat for the odd weekend if their helm were to be in the front. I think you would also see more boats being lent to u25 non boat owners.
Can I suggest Sam that you take a look at the Gill Series results for the last couple of years and try to understand which boats might fall into the Youth Series category if over 25s were allowed into the front of the boat? Compare that with the current pool of u25s both back and front - I am confident the former will be the greater and therefore serving better your aim of getting more youth into the fleet.
Best of luck with the series however it is run.
Jane
oops I seem to have started a war, so may I now offer the olive branch of peace.
if we cannot change this year's series, and if the programs have gone to print, then this is the case, may I suggest at one of the 3 big events, we have a "youth at the helm" race. either the inlands, the summer event or the nationals themselves. this would allow us to test the theory, and could see some hilarious scenes as some of our top sailors frantically run around finding a youth to borrow to steer their boats. The local club might well be a source of willing participants too.
In fact the more I think of this idea, the better it seems. imagine a young local sailor being approached by the guy winning the event to see if he wants a ride, not only in the boat, but helming it. it would be the perfect way to get them to try the boats out, with the best kit, the best crews, and the most fun. could be a massive publicity coup.
Laura, I am sure Graham camm owes you a favour for you crewing at grafham....:K)
Sam
Are you sure? Take some time to reflect?
I note that our principal junior trophy, the Corrigan Cup has no crew age restriction.
Why do we want rules? Do we not want participation?
yes of course we do want participation but the issue is, are we going to drive away people if we do have top helms crewing for others, i feel that this will dishearten those who are trying very hard to do well with their young crews.
while i feel the youth series should remain a youth affiar, how would everyone feel about a "crews race" mini series, so use that discard to let your crew have a go on that steerey thing.
so at any youth series events, where the "usual crew" is steering they would count towards a sub series?
i feel that caters for most peoples needs?
please feel free to disagree and give more feed back
not that i dont value all your feedback ( it has been fantstic thankyou)
but it would be nice if some of the competitors / those planning to come to some of the events would participate. feels slighty like no one actually wants to enter, if this is the case why am i running it?
Before anyone thinks of suggesting any changes to dates or venues, or thinks about adding any further events to the Youth programme, the programme for 2010 is now finalised and cannot be changed.
RM
Well said Jane
Having a top helm or crew at the front of the boat is invaluable in terms of advice but the finesse and therefore the ability to get the boat going properly is still down to the helm. No amount of chatter into a helms port and starboard ear'oles is going to make a huge amount of difference to that which comes from time on the water learning the skills.
What a good crew can and should be doing all the time is to give confidence to the helm (they can be a bit precious sometimes), provide positive feedback, keep an eye on boat set up, check on other boats positions, check the tactics being employed agree with the race stategy you agreed on before the start (you did have one, didn't you?) keep an eye on wind direction and keep the helm (quietly) updated on headers or lifts, plan ahead for mark roundings, keep the boat and sails trimmed and balanced. The crew can have a wider brief than the helm and all that can leave the helm to concentrate on driving the boat hard - which is his/her job - it's all about speed. The more responsibility for race decisions that a crew can take on, the less time the helm has to worry/think about all the other issues and can concentrate for longer. Nobody said crewing was easy or just pulling on a jib sheet.
Back to this thread. Not every teenager can afford a decent boat. I got my experience by helming in the regular club crews race, at first with the boat owner, then, as he got more confidence in me, with anyone who would crew for me. That then lead on to confidence, on both sides, to borrow boats for open meetings. I would be more prepared to lend my boat if I had first hand knowledge of demonstrated ability and if others felt the same, you might have more participants in the series
I think you overplay the good helm factor. They are more used to receiving information than to giving it and you might find a better performance comes from having a good crew at the front
I think allowing any age of crew would certainly increase the number of under 25s. There will be more access to advice and boats. I don't see the problem of giving these young helms access to newer boats. When you start sailing and racing, one of the foundations are to get hold of the best boat you can. Even if you exclude parents' boats, you will always find someone under 25 who is lucky enough to afford a new(ish) boat. Surely one of the best ways in which the young N12 helms are going to improve is to have someone experienced in the front.
Just to add to the debate in favour of allowing older crews. In my opinion this would help numbers no end which is surely what we are about? A 12 is a tricky boat in which to start your helming but with guidence it should be a good experience, I learnt with older members crewing about 49 years ago and I am still trying to improve. Without expert guidence I would probably just have got frustrated and taken up Golf. I doubt if a young novice with an experienced helm for guidence would be any real threat to two competent juniors anyway as most helms are really bad crews as well as too heavy and slow (just ask Philip David, I crewed for him at Tynemouth a couple of weeks ago and we got stuffed by Angus). No need to change any events now they are fixed but the qualifying rules can surely be tweaked prior to the first event if necessary. Shame Sam couldnt make the last committee meeting this could probably have been sorted then in the correct manner. Howard C
hey,
i think that having a race where the helms have to find a youth to helm their boat is a good idea, also having a small series for the helms and crews to swap over would be nice.
to have an older person in the front of the boat is reasurring if you are a youth just starting to helm, therefore i think that there should be a few races for that option, but i think that it is also unfair on the people that have both the helm and crew as youths because the youth crew usually wouldnt have the same amount of experience as an adult crew so personally i think that the youth series should be just for youths.
Not sure if it would complicate things too much, but would it be feasible to apply some form of personal handicapping if it was felt that one group had a perceived advantage?
Thanks to all who have contributed to this topic so far - it's clear we will have plenty of ideas to work through with Sam and Chris at the next NTOA Committee meeting in January. Tim