Anyone know the answer?
Jim N3130 and 3470
Jim - you must be a bit of a mind reader - had the same thoughts about the AC / DB discussion the soapdishes I guess pushed the rules. Apart from a couple of pics in the very useful handbook - it would be great to see more of them.
I'm still keen to set up some sort of searchable handbook with history, owners, locations - would be awesome as my US colleagues say (about nearly everything).
Will talk to Grazz about it hopefully in a couple of weeks at Thames area evening.
Kean
I remember seeing a Soapdish in the dinghy park at Olton Mere in sunny brummy. This was a couple of years ago - Timmy Laws might know more if he's lurking...
Yeah, one of them is/was at Olton - 3321? Though cant (no apostrophes on this french keyboard that I can see...) remember who owned it - one of Teds boats perhaps. Only sailed it briefly so difficult to draw any conclusions (esp with the diabolical wind at olton) but it did empty pretty much immediately after a capsize and the footwells then drained fairly immediately.
Tim
Fancy telling us newbies how these boats changed things?
if we were to tell you that you would know more than all of us!!
It is one of the black arts of sailing, but basically they got the water out of the boat quicker than the traditional single bottomed boats
From what I remember from the class handbook was one of them not heavily modified after it's first season... as in sawn in half and had a new back end grafted on....
The history as above is all spot on. Rob had one, Pete Robinson the other - neither of them slouches in making a Twelve go. I saw them at Salcombe just after they were launched - and they looked very funky for the time. I suspect that if Rob hadlimited his experimentation to the floor in a known shape and fast rig, they would have been very quick. In the event, somewhere between the hull and the rig, they were dogs and neither Pete nor Rob could make them go. If my memory serves me correctly, Rob took the thinking in the shape into his Brand Loyalty lines but that never really went either, even for John Sears who was also pretty quick around then (and indeed still is!!)
Mike D
N3496
All this makes them sound like complete dogs... As typical for any Peebles boat it was smokin' fast on a tight reach. Was far too skiff like to work as a N12 properly.
Following the design evolotion theme...
Does anyone have a picture of a Radical Posture (N3257 / N3260 / N3265) ?
N3249 Fat Tulip (Brand Loyalty) is advertised on apollo duck with quite a good photo.http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=49713
Did radical postures not have the cool measurement bumps?
3257 (Simply Red) was one of my fleet a few years ago - bought as she was going to be broken up!!!! I renovated her and then sold her on to a guy at Chipstead; I believe that he still has her.
Interisting concept and yes had BIG wedges on either side. The c/board was as close to a dagger board as could be within the rules and only just rotated below the sheerline. I sailed her a couple of times at Saltash but in reality was too heavy and the conditions were very light so can't judge how she sailed.
I think that another of the Postures is at Starcross - stored at the back of the dinghy park last time I was there, not sure which one though.
Don't forget that Rob continued his 'self draining' concepts through to 3396 ( the famous yellow boat) winning the 95 Burton Cup. Now that was a really fun boat to sail and the water definately did self drain..............
John, I gather that she was quite "freaky"?
I particularly like the photo of the boat in Salcombe Harbour near the ferry and the one to The Bag is quite nice too....
What happened to her? There were only a few built I gather. I was even considering a commission myself, but couldn't get in touch with Rowsell, although I gathered that there might still be a mould set at Wrecked 'em Boats. Then I stopped enquiring, since it would have been too difficult to monitor progress from so far away...
All things considered, I think there are many alleyways not yet fully explored for the 12 in this direction, where the floor level can be lower and yet the boat still drain efficiently. I have the feeling that this theme isn't going to die away....
Jim N3130 and 3470
Jim,
definately you freaked out when you saw 3396! Hence her being renamed O'Crikey...............
The Freak Outs are very similar to Crusaders, a bit wider aft, not so much freeboard however not one of the was the same. Kevin played with the moulds and its best to talk to him about what he did. I know that Rob altered 3396 a lot underwater, including putting a sort of chine along he last 3 foot a la a Baggy rail. she is now lanuishing in a garage in Callington and Simon Hinks is threatening to get her on the water again..............................but I am not holding my breath - if you read this Simon; thats a challenge!
John
Jim, the only way the current boats will get a lower floor and still drain is with a self bailer. Chunkey Monkey was as low as I would put one... Original Big Issue style layout would be the bext way for old people (single bailer in the middle), but without the sidedeck tanks...
I think 3396 is probably my favourite twelve ever... and I've only ever seen her in pictures....
I'm a sucker for spaceframes me.... ;D
Luckpiewalker, I almost totally agree.....................except that 3444 came along and the rest as they say is!!!!!
3396 is one of those boats that leaves a lasting impression and the only reson I sold her on was that I ran out of space in the workshop, otherwise I think that I would have kept her for posterity. not only carbon space fromes but the treetrunk of a Proctor carbon mast, 4 selfbailers, more string than a Fourteen and more lead than the Titanic!
Luckpiewalker, I almost totally agree.....................except that 3444 came along and the rest as they say is!!!!!
3396 is one of those boats that leaves a lasting impression and the only reson I sold her on was that I ran out of space in the workshop, otherwise I think that I would have kept her for posterity. not only carbon space frames but the treetrunk of a Proctor carbon mast, 4 selfbailers, more string than a Fourteen and more lead than the Titanic!
O'Crikey, how did I manage to post that one twice?
I believe 3130 is still at Bradwell.
I've seen her there a couple of times in the last few years never on the water but normally rigged looking as though the owner has just nipped to the chandler's.
Back to the "Soapdishes".
It is correct that 2 were built. I believe that Pete still has his in a barn somewhere having not sailed it since Harwich Town in1989.
The boats had more "innovative" features and Rob has since told ne he was totally convinced that they were going to come 1 and 2 at the nationals. The main hull feature that has had a lasting impact on the class was the near self draining layout which was initially banned. However, once the class realised how good it was, the rules were finally changed to allow self draing.The other feature that we see today is that these boats were the first to have max beam throught the crew area all the way to the transom. In fact, the gunwhale was created from a straight aluminium tube. The wide Chapters recreate that feature (which makes a lot fo sense).
The hulls themselves were probably the strongest 12 hulls ever built. Nobody was playing with carbon at the time and these boats were built to a spec that used all the weight. As we now know you can build a hull 20kgs light, that means that these hulls had 20kgs of carbon more than is used today! I remember Rob telling me the layup and commenting that they built Quarter Tonners from that! In fact, one day Rob was towing the boat and somebody in a parked car, npt realising there was a boat behind Rob's car, opened his door and it hit the boat. The door was wripped off and the boat barelyt had a scratch!
I am not sure where the inspiration for the rig came from but the boats had really small jibs and mains that needed about 12" of prebend. This was achieved with cap shrouds. However, they hadn't spotted that as soon as you bore away, the sail became as full as anything and the caps destroyed the shape!
The hullshape on Rob's boat was modified by Rob and a conventional rig was put on but Rob finally admitted defeat, bought a Freak Out shell, decked it and won the Burton Cup. At some pointwhiloe he was still sailing it Rob and I were on our way to a Lark open and a group came on the radio. We both knew, instantly, that the band's name was ideal for his Soapdish. He named his boat "Arrested Development"! Perfect ;D
My favorite story about these boats is that when they arrived at Harwich they were the centre of attention. In fact, Chris Atkins (who later won the week) wanted to place an order there and then so as to be sure of getting the next one built. Everybody was convinced that they were the future of 12's.