Your problem with wanting a grp 12 is that after Paper Dart, there really weren't any until the Design 8 which are hard to get hold of and will cost you more than your budget. Find a sound Pipedream or Cat, strip it down and epoxy it, put on the most modern fittings and sails you can afford, find an alternative crew to your current 17 stone one and enjoy!
Mike D
N3496
Thanks Mike, I suspected that would have to be my option, although my crew is only 8.5 stone and so am I -meant to say combined weight of 17! ;D
Don't write off the Windfall, I had one at that time and I had a lot more speed than the Cats, with the exception of David Croft! Pipedreams are great lake boats, can be hairy downwind at sea!
Don't write off the Paper Dart either - indestructible, cheap and very slippery inland. Used to be one at Olton Mere that would regularly beat Roger Angell (ex-Int Moth world champ) round the course in his laser. That said PD s are almost as hard to get hold of as design 8s!
Tim
N3497
Thanks for your input guys, it's nice to have some personal opinions to back up the published info. :)
Does anybody have any further information on the Windfall? The design guide mentions its excellent in sub-planing conditions which sounds perfect for my club, but obviously I will be going elsewhere occasionally (and hopefully competing on the open circuit too). if anyone has a few photos that would be great.
Thanks again everyone!
The Windfall featured a slightly inverted garboard, which made it quite skinny at the rise of floor point. I had Freefall which was very fast inland sub-planing and pointed like hell! Landslide, ex-Dave Peacock and later Richard Watson's was very fast even into the Baggy/Crusader era. I think I saw Apple Pie which was a Smart Built boat (very pretty) on the for sale list.
David
3461
Thanks David, I had noticed Apple Pie on the for sale list she looks perfect for what I need to start off in the class. Just tried phoning the guy but no answer, so I shall try again tomorrow :)
I remember Apple Pie - lovely boat. I agree with most of the earlier comments here too. You might be able to find a composite Baggy for around your budget - could be good with your light weight but a bit trickier to get he best out of in light weather.
I'm a great fan of Cheshire Cats - as I recall Mr Croft's wasn't the only one that could beat a certain Windfall mentioned earlier!
Good luck.
Where is your lake?
Cheers
David W
3481
I sail at Welwyn Garden City SC, 18 acres of shifty winds and grumpy fishermen ;D There's a website at www.wgcsc.org.uk
I think our ex-commodore sails an updated cheshire cat, not sure but looks similar, I'll have to make a note of the sail number.
EDIT: I do know she's blue and her name is Zoombini!
Hi David,
Nothing has really changed in 25 years! Would have saved a lot of money, saved our knees and we would probably be more able to beat Will! See you at Salcombe?
TC was quite fast too!
David
3461
Joseph
Zoombini is a Crusader - she was sailed at Chipstead by Terry McCarthy until a couple of years ago.
If you prefer GRP there were a few composite built Warlocks - I had 2796 until a few years ago and she was an excellent "puddle yot" - however, probably not many usable ones left now.
I currently have a Grebe, which was specifically designed for small inland waters and sub-marginal planing conditions,and goes very well in them. However only 3 of these were built and because the design is optimised for one set of conditions they don't go so well when it's windy or wavy, being narrower than most late @80's/early '90's designs.
Happy Hunting
Giles
N3319
It's a long time since my boat got a mention here! My Cat was one of only three built by Dave Proctor, at the time Mike Jackson joked that they were the closest ones to his lines! My boat does have a short centreboard too. In terms of light weater performace the Cat has to be up there as one of the all-time clasics but I do believe that when the wind drops to a real drifter the Paper Dart has the edge, similarly the Cat seems to have a bit more power when there is wind. Mine is at it's best on those days when the helm is sitting out and the crew are mid-ships. Pipe Dream is excellent too but I don't think they carry weight, come to that the Tiger/tigress is better at carrying a little more weight. All very subjective but lots of fun! Dave C
Oh well tried phoning the guy about a dozen times now and left a message but it just goes to answerphone. I don't suppose anyone knows him? Perhaps he's on holiday?
I'm not complaining about my Tigress. She carries our weight well and that's saying something!
She also has quite a lot of righting moment - good when it suddenly starts to blow and you're a bit slow to get sitting out.You've got to watch it though. Due to her round bilge, I don't think she has the stability of the Tiger. In our first regatta we swam 4 times! (I think I'm going to rename her "Tucking Fippy" - It's better than "Betty Swallocks") ;D
Jim N3130 Nuttyshell
Well, Apple Pie has gone so I shall keep my eyes peeled I guess. How many of you guys in the older boats Cheshire Cat, Tigress, Pipedream etc compete on a national scale?
Pipedream is more than competitive inland (in the right hand, i.e. not mine! :-/) Won't come anywhere near the more modern, fat boats on open water though. Last time I sailed mine I borrowed a Superspars carbon mast and modern cut Alverbank sails and it totally transformed the boat.
Talk to Mike Cooke, he had some interesting ideas about Pipedreams a couple of years ago.
I still have them.... Just a question of spare time!
I shall be doing most of my sailing inland, probably only things like national champs or the odd day out on the sea. I take it little else comes close to a Pipedream in terms of inland/light airs performance as it is tilted more to that extreme of design?
Would I be right in thinking an older hull with good spars/sails/foils will be more enjoyable and competitive than a newer hull with older parts?
EDIT: If anyone out there is reading I am happy to px. my fireball (gbr12284) which is a sound classic boat and will only need a good rub down and fresh coat of varnish to make her gorgeous again. Sad to see her go really!