I am trying to work out what kind of mast N 3143 Catatonic has (1981 Bob Hoare Tigress). There is no manufacturers name on the mast, but there is a Rowsell & Morrisson sticker. Did Rowsell & Morrisson make masts?
The boom is a Needlespar. so I guess it could be a Needlespar mast. It has an blue external sleeve on the section just below deck level.
Hi Alistair,
I always thought it was a Proctor, but thinking about it I'm not sure what evidence I had for that. Sorry!
Hope you're still having fun sailing her
Matt
Has it a separate track for the luff groove? If so it is likely to be Needlespar. If the luff groove is part of the main extrusion, measure it's fore and aft and transverse dimensions. These could help identify which Proctor section or lead you to another manufacturer.
Thanks for the replies. The luff groove is part of the main extrusion so I guess we can rule out Needlespar. I will do some measuring next time I get down to the dinghy park.
Hi Alistair,
This boat used to owned by Ben Deverson at Twickenham, he would know what mast the boat had. Sorry I don't have his contact details but if he's not in the book his mum should be!
I would guess that it's almost certain to be a Proctor. The big dinghy chandlers suh as P&B often have mast dimensions listed in their catalogues but the problem is your mast might be discontinued (like the Proctor-alpha on my old boat).
Regards, Dave
Thanks Dave. Everything seems to point towards Proctor. I noticed that Proctor make a blue deck level mast sleeve, and this looks the same as the sleeve on Catatonic.
Ben is really pleased that Catatonic is back at Twickenham. Before the Open meeting here in October he was telling me all about how fast his old 12 was. It was only when Matt turned up at Twickenham with Catatonic that I realised that it was Ben's old boat. I think it must have some kind of homing instinct.
As you may know Pip has just acquired a Tigress, and her other son Chris already races one at TYC, so the 12 class is enjoying a Tigress led revival at Twickenham.
I have an old Proctor Mast catalogue. If you e-mail me the longitudinal and transverse dimensions in mm, I will try and identify.
Hi Alistair,
I didn't realise you were at Twickenham. I was a member there 25 year ago!! I am very local and thought that 12's had pretty much died out at TYC in the last couple of years. We were thinking of trying to get some mid-week evening sailing locally this summer and it was looking like the only option was going to be buying another Merlin. How many 12's are regularly sailing at TYC on wednesday evenings?
If you want to pop round sometime and look at my mast, you are welcome. It's a Proctor alpha, very popular in late 70's/early 80's.
Sorry to use the forum for chit chat but your e-mail isn't posted here.
regards,
Dave
David
The TYC N12 fleet has recovered from a low point of 2 boats to 5. With a bit of luck this revival will encourage a few more people to base their 12s at TYC. I am hoping that this year a typical Wednesday evening race will include 3 or 4 12s plus of course the Enterprises and Solos. Our first Wednesday evening race is on May 7.
You might also enjoy the Lifeboat Week pursuit racing which runs each evening from July 14 to 18.
Hopefully once I have measured the mast we will be able to identify it using johnk's old Proctor catalogue.
OK. Finally managed to do the mast measuring. The dimensions are approximately 56mm wide by 63mm (front to back).
Sounds like a proctor C, according to the dimensions on their website.
The dimensions of mast sections in my 1976 Proctor catalogue are (fore and aft first) in mm
B 69 63
C 65 54
D 73 57
E 70 54
F 78 60
Alpha 63 53
Beta 66 56
The Alpha minus has a wall thickness of 1.53 mm, the plus 2.10 mm
The Beta minus has a wall thickness of 1.70 mm, the plus 2.03 mm
Alistair's mast could therefore be a C or an Alpha. The Betas are stiffer than a D section so unlikely in a 12. I hope this is of some help.
Another point:- The halyards in the B, C, D sections often run inside the luff groove. In the Alpha / Beta, they run inside the main mast section. The luff groove in the Alpha / Beta is circular in section. In the B, C, D sections is triangular which gives space for a halyard to run in the luff groove.
Thanks johnk. I will double check my measurements and see where the halyards run.
My C(s) all had internal halyards, and along with the Kappas were one of the most common sections right up to the time we went plastic.
From the current Selden website
http://www.seldenmast.co.uk/dinghy/compare.asp
Fore and aft measurement first in mm
Lambda 63 51
Kappa 67 55
Cumulus 69 58
D Plus 3 73 57
Epsilon 72 57
Gamma 75 56
Super Spar data from
www.superspars.com with fore and aft dimension second
M1 55 mm x 68 mm
M2 57 mm x 72 mm
M3 57 mm x 72 mm
M4 57 mm x 72 mm
M5 57 mm x 72 mm
M6 61 mm x 74 mm
M7 57 mm x 69 mm
M8 55 mm x 69 mm
M9 53 mm x 64 mm
M11 68 mm x 86 mm
M12 73 mm x 95 mm
Alistair - I have attached some photos of Proctor Alpha and C sections in case you are still trying to identify your spar.
Hope they help.
Tim
Tim. Many thanks for the photos. I continue to be amazed at how helpful 12 sailors are!
I am pretty certain the mast must be an Alpha. It has exactly the same rounded profile.
Would I be right in thinking that this is a fairly bendy mast? I am currently trying to repair the mast screw. Just need to find the right threaded rod in stainless steel.
I think I am going to need the mast screw to maximise power. I am going to be racing with 22 stones + on board.
Once I have done some strong breeze sailing I may try playing with the spreader settings if I need to stiffen the mast.
Yes - the Alpha is fairly soft - like the C and tha Lamda sections, and you will need some contol at mast gate level to control the bend.
Check out the N12 tuning guide - and dare I say it the Graduate website!! : http://homepages.rya-online.net/graddinghy/@graduatedinghy/gofaster.htm (http://homepages.rya-online.net/graddinghy/@graduatedinghy/gofaster.htm), for tips on sorting spreader length.
Or speak with other 12 sailors more knowledgeable than me on the subject!
I've got to set up an old Alpha in a few weeks time so it would be useful to hear how you got on.
I have achieved reasonable control of sideways movement at deck level by packing out each side of the mast slot with thin /light aluminium plant labels. These labels are 20mm wide. Each label is less than 1mm thick so I have got a very snug fit.
I suppose it might be better to try and mount them vertically on the mast so as to spread the load over a bigger area. I think for inland sailing the current set up should be OK once I have the mast screw back in place.
Longer term I might fit some lowers. However, I am not sure how easy it would be to adjust a mast screw and lowers together whilst on the water. I could just set the rig up in the dinghy park and leave it alone when sailing.
Alistair,
I think the Proctor Alpha is an excellent mast for a Tigress. Certainly my Cheshire Cat has always gone well with this section. They are fairly bendy above the hounds with good gust reaction (although nothing like as good as the new carbon masts). I have the spreaders fairly high on my rig and you need a very good kicker system but that's probably true of most 12's with hog-stepped masts.
Many years ago at Salcombe I was chatting to Dan Alsop (better known these days in Merlins) about his Tigress and he said that after he broke his Alpha the boat had never gone as well, he recommended I look after my mine!
Regards, Dave
So if I did manage to break the Alpha the only logical option would be to fit a carbon mast! A Tigress with a carbon rig might be quite quick.
N3143 is already quick when Matt was sailing her!
Tim - hope you're not planning on cutting up the new mast in the same way as the photos here show ;)
No chance of that - the mast sections are courtesy of Brian Herring - who brought them down to the Dinghy exhibition on Sat. Luckily, it meant I could photograph them quite easily without chopping up the spars I am trying to restore, which both now need some subtle welding work.
The bit of Alpha is to give me some spare section to repair an area of corrosion I have on the one I hope to use on N341.
The bit of C section has a very old combined gooseneck/diamonds fitting attached - which Brian thought might help solve my shortage of a sliding gooseneck. Luckily another N12 sailor kindly brought the genuine item to the show and handed it to me on the 12 stand so I'm half way to getting the C section sorted.
However - I'm stuck until I can locate the guy who said he could do the necessary welding for me - he seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth. Why is it you can never find a good MIG/TIG welder when you need one?!