Hi there,
I am new to the community, and a potential new 12 sailor.
In particular I am interested in trying to make my own hull (I made a Mirror from a kit when I was younger which was immensely satisfying) and I wanted to find out if it is possible to get designs for some of the more recent hull shapes (I am particularly interested in the foolish as well as Bims more recent designs) so that I could make something that might be reasonably competative.
I don't know if these designs are freely available or if they can be obtained for a fee, but if anyone has any information or could forward my request to someone who may be able to help then I would be most grateful.
In addition if there are any other DIYers out there I would love the opportunities to share tips (well err... I guess I don't really have any yet but...) to avoid the obvious pit falls.
Perhaps I'll see you on the water in the not too distant future?
Ben
Hi Ben!
What materials are you considering?
MikeyC of Aardvarktechnologies has a Big Issue mould and also a Foolish mould. If you like wood, talk to Dare Barry. He still builds his modified Final Chapter design (Man O' War) in ply. I'm the proud owner of one ;D Either way, when you build you might still have to consider paying a reasonable license fee for the design unless you're doing your own ;).
Cheers and good hunting!
Jim. N3470 Passion Pudding.
The current designs are generally royalty based varying from 75 to 150 per boat. Only the final chapter and variants (man o war) can be built in ply.
As Jimbo has said, I have a couple of moulds for varying designs and could supply just the bare hull shell for you to complete - this takes the hard part out...
Cheers
Mike C
I have sent Bim an email letting him know your interest. He is on holiday for another week so you may have to wait for him to get in touch.
There is a crusader mould going in the for sale>bits section
Thanks for all the replys,
John M. Thanks for emailing Bim directly.
MikeyC - at the minute I am considering different options and buying a bare hull is one of them... The engineer in me would like to design his own though (learning from the designs that are already out there). I have a few months before I move back to the UK so I have time to spend researching hull designs.
My most favored approach currently is trying to build a hull using cedar strip construction which would seem to give the most flexibility for the design.
Does anyone have a view as to how competitive a ply vs cedar strip vs glass construction can be?
Thanks again for the responses.
Ben
The Swift Solo is made using a strip Cedar core - they seem to have an active web site and may help you with any ideas. Also there was / is a guy in Scotland (Marcus ?) producing a strip cedar Wild Front Ear.
Hope that helps too.
Kean
The guy in Scotland is Marcus Wheel, and his telephone number is in the yearbook. His strip cedar N12 is a very smart looking boat.
RM
Strip plank and glass epoxy sheathed is very easy as a one off and cheap,you can usually use ply for the top sides as they are flat, this makes it even quicker to build ,I have built several this way. Go for it.
Ben,
There are a load of building guides on the website. Have a look at http://www.national12.org/private.shtml#building_guides
They cover building in ply and foam sandwich. I don't think we have one for strip Cedar construction though.
Happy contemplating
Graham
the original Feeling Foolish built by Nigel Waller was glass sheathed strip cedar if i recall correctly.
Thanks again to everyone for the info. Very useful - I think I am pursueding myself to make a strip cedar boat.
Gary - it sounds like you have a bit of prior experience in the strip cedar approach - I will PM you when I get closer to starting with a few questions if that is OK?
Ben
There is a design right on a hull e.g Feeling Foolish. Can someone produce a very similar design (i.e tweaked in a few areas) and then claim design rights to the 'new' hull? Does a different internal layout provide enough of a change??
Just curious.....
Hi Kean,
I think the design rights and copyright is very much a moral issue. At the end of the day the copyright to the rule belongs to the class. The rule is a box rule with most contemary designs pushing to similar limits, the rest is optimization to a perceived weight and performance range.
Nearly all designs have some reference to what came before, even if there are no direct measurements, ones judgement of what works is likely to be influenced by preceeding designs.
I understand that Dare's boats are derived from Final Chapter, I don't know if he pays a royalty, likewise Meds and Bruce's Chapters have been developed beyond Mike Jackson's original concept.
If you think that you are plagerising a design you should pay the royalty, in most cases the designer will have taken considerable thought and time, and nowadays when the design is computer generated the software is not cheap.
Finally, I have made "Annie Apple" available for amateur construction FOC, the moulds have now been destroyed, but I would be happy to supply a set of mylar templates to any skin thickness offset at cost for amateur construction. I would also be happy to deepen the stem and widen the transom which I think would make her a bit faster upwind and more powerful downwind. If you are interested my number is in the book.
Regards,
David
Y177
S4789
Without being over precious I do earn my living as a working Naval Architect!
I have always been keen to promote amateur construction (and design) in National 12's, but would charge for a professional boat.
Incidentally Annie Apple has flat topsides which will work in ply.
Even Bim or Jacko would be hard pressed to get a commercial return for the time that they will have put into their designs.
Best Regards,
David Greening BEng (Hons) CEng MRINA AYDSA
It's a pity that the Annie Apple mould has been destroyed. The original boat is now being sailed on a very small puddle and absolutely flys in all conditions. It seems to have all the advantages of a 70's 4 planker and self draining as well. An opportunity missed methinks?
The mould took up a lot of space and weighed a lot. If we did another we would have taken a female mould off Annie, or would construct a new mould for a modified boat.
David