Are we an ageing population?

[jammy dodger]

I want to do an article in the next Ratchet on National 12 ownership. As this is likely to go in the 'London Boat Show' promotional issue, I would like to build an accurate picture of who owns 12's, where we sail them, where we keep them.
How old is the average National 12 owner? What is the average age at an average 12 event? How many boys, how many girls, what levels of expertise, what is the average age of the boats?
No doubt I can get data from Michael Brookman, but I want to know what you lot think and see how it compares with any data we hold.
How many 12 owners sail in different classes? what results do you get when sailing in different boats?
I believe we will all be surprised at the outcome of any survey and am sure it will present the class in a very positive light.
I'm going to try and get a survey together with the committee and post / email you all, meantime let's have an open forum...
Simon
ED, Ratchet
N?

[FuzzyDuck]

[rick perkins]

I run a survey every year for the Musto Skiff Class;

See http://www.mustoskiff.com/survey/survey-public.htm

We use this data to communicate with members and decide future issues on fixtures, builds, event style, messages and many other issues.

We also survey non-owners to understand what they think of the class and find out what is stopping them joining us ...

You can't decide how to move forwards until you really know where you are at present.

Rick

[Jimbo41]

Rick,

Very interesting. Do you sample the public (non-owners) uniquely from the class website? I ask this because there would appear to be a bias in favor of those potentially attracted to the class and/or those who are aware of the website/survey.

If the NTOA were to carry out the survey from the website alone, we'd have to bear this in mind.... ??)

Cheers

Jim N3130 and N3470.

[Jimbo41]

Sudden thought - ideal to try a survey at next January's Dinghy Exhibition ?
Have we done one recently at such an event?

Jim N3130 and 3470

[Jon_P]

You have to be careful at the dinghy exhibition because you want to  promote the class and if you are having a survey put in front of you it might put people off? The fear is being mailshot for the rest of the year!

[Jimbo41]

 Hmmmm. How would you do it Jon_P?

Jim  ??)

[rick perkins]

[quote by=Jimbo41 link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool,m=1163443689,s=3 date=1163497363]Rick,

Very interesting. Do you sample the public (non-owners) uniquely from the class website? I ask this because there would appear to be a bias in favor of those potentially attracted to the class and/or those who are aware of the website/survey.

If the NTOA were to carry out the survey from the website alone, we'd have to bear this in mind.... ??)

Cheers

Jim N3130 and N3470.[/quote]

The survey was promoted via the class eNews that has over 600 subscribers the majority of whome don't own Musto Skiffs and on the website. So of course many are interested but don't own boats - just the sort of folk who may join the class. I think you'd be interested in the opinions of owners and people who may buy ... who cares about the opinions of anyone who isn't likley to sail a 12?

If the NTOA were to do this I think a press campaign would be required to get a good response and would be a great PR exercise in it's own right to prod many of the lapsed owners ...

Rick

[davidg (Guest)]

A similar survey was carried out about 5 years ago and was co-ordinated by Gavin, a few volunteers were given 10 names each to phone up and complete a "telephone" questionaire.  It was quite hard work, especially to get non-active sailors to open up about why they weren't sailing as much as we would like them to!  Gavin might still have the data, I can't imagine that much has changed.

David
3461

[Jon_P]

[quote by=Jimbo41 link=Blah.cgi?b=Cool,m=1163443689,s=6 date=1163498762] Hmmmm. How would you do it Jon_P?

Jim  ??)[/quote]

Not sure Jim,

But alot of people go for a wander round and have a look.  they fancy having a nosey and the 12 looks great so we should have no problems!!! If i was going to the boat show i would not want to be asked how old i was, hiow many kids i have and how often i compete.  Do you see what I mean?  Not exactly good marketing!

I think web or phone is the best way of doing it.  

I might as well answer the thread too! sail with my partner (she's female!)  both 24.  Race a RS vareo when have no crew.  Race at club level every week in nottingham. Boat is 20 years old.  Wil try and get to a few natioanl events next year.  

[Jimbo41]

Rick,

interesting aspect. How did you get the email list? Just by people making enquiries via the website? We might be able to do the same....

Davidg, I'm also of the opinion that ringing up and pestering isn't the answer. It's too labour-intensive.

I'm particularly interested in targeting parents and families (re)turning to 12's to give their children a taste. It's these kid's that are going to form part of the future of the class.

In my opinion the popularity of a class has little to do with the objective direct performance of the boat per se. Take for example, the popularity of the Mirror or Optimist. It's more to do with how its image performs, which is a marketing issue. So target your market ...(after ascertaining where the target is of course!!!!!) and push the boat out!!!!!

Cheers!

Jim N3130 and 3470 (Soon to be mine)

[Jimbo41]

In answer to the thread, I'm 42, married, with a child of 9 whose already hooked on (Optimist) sailing, but occassionally sails with me (she says it's boring under 4bft!?!?). I also have a more permanent crew member who's female and my age. My wife is starting to get interested in dinghy sailing, but prefers to charter larger boats on holiday.

My boat's a Tigress, 27 years old and I'm about to acquire a  Man O War from Simon. We like wood. We sail in Germany - last year competitively for the first time on our local Bavarian lake - and want to come over to England next year for BW and Salcombe and maybe try every year after that. (Loosing weight fast!!!!)

Oh yes, I forgot to add that I also crew a Flying Dutchman, when my helm gets motivated enough to want to sail.

Cheers,

Jim N3130 and 3470

[THG]

Not sure the Class is 'ageing' as many of the newer members (at least on the forum) seem to be as Jim described returneers to sailing.  Ricks / Skiff survey is interesting - I'd also like to know where all the old boats are now - this may help to encourage folks to sail and help to track our history.

I'm sure I've said this before but I believe there are very few 'new' N12 sailors that buy a DB boat as 1st (Rick is possibly one exception) - my observation is most try out an older boat and then get hooked and move on or wither away??  The AC type is a very economical way into sailing - in some cases why worry about maintenance - buy a 'done up boat' sail it for a year or two and then flog it for about what you paid for it - little or no deprciation (one guy at Grafham said he bought one for 250 then sold on for 500!).

Me - age 41, ex yoof laser sailor, now sail with my sons (14,10,5,1) at local gravel pit.  Did BW this year (can't do 07), did some Gill & SW opens this year - plan to do some more next.  This is my 2nd 12 in about 4 years.  Longer term may upgrade to a DB but enjoy the AC sailing and balancing wants vs family budget is always tricky!

How do we get the 'Feva' type folks to look at a 12 - example at our Club we have a big Cadet Class - then some parents want to sail with them so Feva seems to be a 'good' option.  Do we accept we are a niche and just try to get all those that currently own a 12 out sailing - people will join the Class if its active.  See 'my views' in the latets Ratchet.

Kean
N3339

[Jimbo41]

Kean, the Vareo gets publicity of the right sort and then sells..  It doesn't sail though..

As I said before, you've got to pimp the publicity to sell your wares. These vareo sailors should be 12 sailors. The trouble is that both parents and children will eventually become bored with the Vareo (or indeed any old plastic fantastic of this type of class), whereas they won't easily with the 12. Ephasise the positive, deemphasize the (what?) negative in 12s. I admit it isn't easy to compete with so much advertising. Butn  first, determine your market target(s). There might be more than one......

Jim (Don't knock wood)

[rick perkins]